labrat

I've bought a couple new rear 26" 48h 4x HF08 Rhyno Lite wheels off flee bay for less than half the cost of the hubs. The plan is to strip one of them down to build up a matching H08 front using the same rim and spokes (hope the DS spokes work as my calculator shows they will be about 2mm short when used on the NDS or front). I'm planning on building up another 48h wheelset using HF08 front and rear with Velocity Dyad's. I looked at the adjacent holes of the built Rhyno Lite and the spokes aren't quite tangential but it looks like 5x MAY have crossed over the adjacent head. The spoke calculator I was using showed 284 mm for 4X and 292 for 5x. Can anyone shed some light - is it possible to get a quality build with the larger 700c rim using 5 cross or am I limited to 4 cross for a HF08 Dyad build?

Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can offer.

Jeff Wills

If the wheel were well built, I highly doubt you would notice any difference at all between 4-cross and 5-cross lacing. Build it 4-cross and save yourself some hassle if you ever need to replace a spoke.

FWIW: on the wheels I build, I usually end up wearing out the rim before I break a spoke. In fact, I haven't broken a spoke in years, but I've replaced rims a half-dozen times due to wear.

labrat

Thanks Jeff,

So are you saying I will have issues with spokes crossing their neighbors heads with 5 cross? Isn't 5x supposed to be a "stronger" build?

It's funny you mention replacing the rim before breaking spokes, the main reason for these builds is that I was wrecking rims not breaking spokes. (A couple cracked eyelets and the wear indicators showing on a 36h A719 after about 6,000 miles - mostly winter and some grossly overloaded.) By tearing down the cheap wheel I lucked into I hope to build a pair of 48h HF08/Dyads for less than $300. If I manage to wreck rims or bust spokes on this wheelset, there isn't any hope.

Thanks again and if anyone else could "shed a little light" into the corner of this novice wheel builder it would be greatly appreciated.

mrrabbit 

Same tension...regardless of length or crossing...
Same strength for given guage of spoke regardless of length or crossing...

The real reason tangential lacings are used (4x on 36h) is so that should you have to replace the hub with a different flange diameter hub...it won't matter. You can reuse the spokes as-is.

Most folks will build 48h as 4x...but my spreadsheet "t-chart" tab suggests nothing wrong with 48h laced 5x.

https://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

Grab the spreadsheet...view the "t-chart" tab.

=8-)

fietsbob

48 hole, 5X the first cross pulls across the hub to the opposite side, 4 cross it pulls to the near side
I built my Phil Wood hub 5 cross , and then the bullseye tandem hub 4 cross..
put thousands of loaded touring miles on each..
first wheel set Mavic mod 4, and 2nd Sun Rhyno.. [as opposed to the Rhyno light]

HillRider

As Jeff noted, the strength difference will be negligable. I too haven't broken a spoke in over 20 years and 150,000 miles of riding.

The only spokes I ever broke were on the OEM 27" wheels that came with an '85 Bridgestone 400. These were 36H, 4X using galvanized 14 ga spokes and the rear DS spokes began to break at about 9000 miles. Since then I've used nothing but 32H 3X wheels laced with DT or Wheelsmith stainless spokes, either straight 2.0 or butted 2.0/1.8/2.0, and never broken another and some of the wheels had 30,000 miles when the rims finall wore through.

labrat

Thanks to all who advised this novice wheel builder.

Based on the suggestions that finished wheel strength will be the same 4x or 5x, and there may be a problem with spoke overlap, I think I'll be lacing them up 4x. I'm looking forward to getting the rest of the parts and starting to lace them up.

Thanks again.