Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53
  1. #1
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    6061 aluminum is NOT like 7075 aluminum. They're not even ALMOST similar!

    Dear you who are reading, please spread the word: aluminum 6061 is much softer than 7075. 6061 is much easier to machine with CNC, because of its softness, but the chainrings made from aluminum 6061 alloy last orders of magnitude less, than those made from 7075 aluminum, due to the significant difference in hardness.

    I am posting this, and hoping you will spread the word, because I'm up to here with dishonest sellers who take my money for a 7075 chainring and send me a replacement which is made of 6061, even though I clearly stated that I do NOT WANT a chainring made of aluminum 6061.

    This particualr seller ran out the clock on me, so I could not start a complaint through the PayPal resolution center (45 days max after the transaction), but I still sent an e-mail to PayPal.

    Sellers thrive on general ignorance. Heck, the in-built obsolescence of chainrings made of aluminum 6061 is a GOOD THING from their point of view, as you will be forced to buy a new chainring much faster than if it were made of aluminum 7075 or better yet, steel.



  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,365
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An what does this have to do with mechanic of a bike; did you buy it from this forum?

    If you have an issue with a seller, and use paypal, you have 45 days, your fault for not resolving the issue before that, you obviously knew the product sent was wrong when you recived it, you should have sorted the issue before the 45 day limit was up.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    My Bikes
    Trek Madone 5.5, Klein Q Pro Elite, Surley LHT
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sounds like someone did not do ay research.

  4. #4
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    An what does this have to do with mechanic of a bike;
    People who visit this subforum are most likely interested in facts related to bicycle mechanics; most of them want to learn new things that pertain to bicycle mechanics, and some may not yet know that not all aluminum chainrings are created equal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,654
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    People who visit this subforum are most likely interested in facts related to bicycle mechanics; most of them want to learn new things that pertain to bicycle mechanics, and some may not yet know that not all aluminum chainrings are created equal.
    I think that fairly well known and most us us know enough to stay with reliable suppliers like Shimano, Campy, Suguino and some others. I know you are in Europe so did you buy from a European supplier or from the US?

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    My Bikes
    Raleigh 3 speed
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seems informative to me, for people that don't realize the aluminum you get does matter. He should have probably put the ebay anecdote elsewhere. He did say the seller ran the clock out on him, so the comments made to him by jimc101 are unjustified IMO.

  7. #7
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lincoln Ne
    My Bikes
    RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
    Posts
    3,945
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Jimc

    I guess I think this is a valuable post on this board. Did you or many others know this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    719
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I personally found the post informative.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,365
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why unjustified, the OP was having a rant about nothing related to bike mechanics, but to a bad buying experiance elsewhere, if it has been relevant to fixing a bike, fair enough, but if didn't.

    For different types of Aluminium, there is far more to 6061(t6) than being softer that 7075, they have different properties, and are better suited to different applications google search it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CharleyGnarly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bako, PRK
    My Bikes
    '93(?) Diamondback Traverse, '96 Gary Fisher Mamba, 1981 SE Racing Quadangle.
    Posts
    97
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow. Thanks for the info on the differences. If I ever knew it I forgot it.
    Replacing parts= bike mechanics to me...
    "I have no objection to appeal. I even favor abolition of the death penalty,provided that there is a certainty of punishment, whatever that punishment may be, for in the uncertainty of punishment following crime lies the weakness of our halting justice."
    Isaac Charles Parker, The "Hanging Judge," 1889.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,654
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Maybe I'm naive but I thought it was well known that there are a wide variety of aluminum alloys just as there are steel and Ti alloys. Steel used in bikes varies from "Hi-Ten" (low cost, low strength plain carbon steel) through several grades of Chrome-Moly up to the exotic high strength alloys like Reynolds 853. Titanium alloys vary in strength and durability from CP (commercially pure) grade up through 6/4 Al/V.

    Aluminum alloys are also available in a wide variety of grades varying in strength, hardness, wear resistance and cost.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Flying Merkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Costa Mesa CA
    Posts
    2,539
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the info, sorry to hear you got burned.


    To all of those who thinks the OP was a waste:

    Don't read it. Save your electrons for what you are interested in.

  13. #13
    Lotus Monomaniac Snydermann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,047
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not everybody knows the same things that you know, I thought the post was informative, thanks.
    Always searching for Lotus literature and memorabilia for use at www.VintageLOTUSbicycles.com, can you help?

  14. #14
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Grid Reference, SK
    My Bikes
    I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
    Posts
    3,769
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    Why unjustified, the OP was having a rant about nothing related to bike mechanics, but to a bad buying experiance elsewhere, if it has been relevant to fixing a bike, fair enough, but if didn't.

    For different types of Aluminium, there is far more to 6061(t6) than being softer that 7075, they have different properties, and are better suited to different applications google search it.
    So product and material selection related to maintenance and part replacement has no bearing on mechanics, you say? I THINK NOT!

    Thanks for the info, wroomwroomoops.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek 730, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M6R, Trek 830, Dahon HAT 060, ...
    Posts
    1,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    I am posting this, and hoping you will spread the word, because I'm up to here with dishonest sellers who take my money for a 7075 chainring and send me a replacement which is made of 6061, even though I clearly stated that I do NOT WANT a chainring made of aluminum 6061.

    This particualr seller ran out the clock on me, so I could not start a complaint through the PayPal resolution center (45 days max after the transaction), but I still sent an e-mail to PayPal.
    Have you tried negotiating with the seller, in spite of the resolution period expiring? A seller might be clueless like the rest of the public, not appreciating the significance of the difference in alloys.

    In the past I bought a webcam from a seller who was a front for another seller and just copied info from some leaflet, never trying out the specifications. As the camera did not meet the specs, the seller refunded me and I even kept the camera. Conversely, I once refunded a buyer 6 months after his purchase, after it became that the problem was with the product and not any misuse.

  16. #16
    AEO
    AEO is offline
    Senior Member AEO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
    My Bikes
    Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
    Posts
    12,245
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    at times, I've wondered why some parts were made from 60xx while others were made from 70xx aluminum, but now I think I understand better.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  17. #17
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Jose, California
    My Bikes
    2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
    Posts
    3,182
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The OP's post begs a forum titled:

    "cat 'post' > /dev/null"

    =8-)

    ...and of course the OP is another in the long line of posters who can't seem to bothered to use the Bike Forums forum for vendor reviews...which is where the original post belongs.
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  18. #18
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,840
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by trek330 View Post
    I personally found the post informative.
    Not really because it left out a real important part.

    Most parts are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. The T6 is a heat treatment that significantly affects the properties of the metal.

  19. #19
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    The OP's post begs a forum titled:

    "cat 'post' > /dev/null"

    =8-)

    ...and of course the OP is another in the long line of posters who can't seem to bothered to use the Bike Forums forum for vendor reviews...which is where the original post belongs.
    I didn't make a vendor review, I made a short and hopefully clear explanation on the difference between two aluminum alloys often used for bicycle chainrings. I stated that aluminum 6061 is much easier to machine, but the chainrings made from it last much less. For the maker this is an advantage: the softer Al 6061 will take less time to machine (and will require fewer CNC bit replacements) than the harder Al 7075. Also, the hapless user will be forced to replace the chainring much, much sooner than if the chainring were made from Al 7075, possibly leading to another sale. That is why I said that these people thrive on ignorance, and I would like to, at least a little bit, decrease that ignorance.

    Furthermore, if you don't like this thread, just don't read it, let alone post in it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,795
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    OP, thanks for the info. I think a post that is about the durability of different and popular aluminum alloys definitely is of interest to me as a reader of the Bicycle Mechanics forum.
    Regards,

    Jed

  21. #21
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Jose, California
    My Bikes
    2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
    Posts
    3,182
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Not really because it left out a real important part.

    Most parts are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. The T6 is a heat treatment that significantly affects the properties of the metal.
    Good one Retro Grouch!


    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  22. #22
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Jose, California
    My Bikes
    2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
    Posts
    3,182
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "I am posting this, and hoping you will spread the word, because I'm up to here with dishonest sellers who take my money for a 7075 chainring and send me a replacement which is made of 6061, even though I clearly stated that I do NOT WANT a chainring made of aluminum 6061.

    This particualr seller ran out the clock on me, so I could not start a complaint through the PayPal resolution center (45 days max after the transaction), but I still sent an e-mail to PayPal.

    Sellers thrive on general ignorance. Heck, the in-built obsolescence of chainrings made of aluminum 6061 is a GOOD THING from their point of view, as you will be forced to buy a new chainring much faster than if it were made of aluminum 7075 or better yet, steel."


    Word and Phrase Count:

    sellers = 2
    seller = 1
    PayPal = 2
    thrive on ignorance = 1
    complaint resolution center = 1
    dishonest = 1
    money = 1
    buy = 1
    NOT WANT = 1

    ...sounds like a vendor complaint to me.

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  23. #23
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Not really because it left out a real important part.

    Most parts are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. The T6 is a heat treatment that significantly affects the properties of the metal.
    It is true that aluminum alloy components are also characterized by their temper designation, but the fact is that practically all aluminum chainrings, chainring bolts and cranksets have T6 temper, be it 6061-T6 or 7075-T6. A 6061 alloy component, in any case, cannot be hardened to the level a 7075 component can. In other words, a bicycle component made of aluminum 6061 cannot reach the hardness it would have if it were made of aluminum 7075, regardless of the tempering the 6061 component is subjected to.

    I didn't mention this in my opening post because the tempering doesn't change the fact that a 6061 alloy component will in all circumstances be softer than if it were made of 7075 alloy, and because I wanted to keep my post simple. I also didn't aim at perfection, because I would never finish writing the post and starting this thread, if I aimed at divine perfection.

  24. #24
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    6,266
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What is the big deal about this post? It's of or related to bicycle mechanics, and if people are that offended, simply don't post.

    6061 is about 30% softer than 7075, assuming a T651 temper, which is very common. However they've both very easy to machine, though 7075 has a tendency to flex a tiny bit, so depending on your surface finish requirements, may require a lighter finish pass. 7075 doesn't have the same corrosion resistance as compared to 6061 though. Hard anodizing parts takes care of the difference in wear characteristics between the two allows though
    C://dos
    C://dos.run
    run.dos.run

  25. #25
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    919
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    some parts get cut in a whole, die cut, so that process favors the softer alloy
    cost savings, in lower price points.
    and in other thicker parts like crank arms is fine.

    7075t6, Ergal in some descriptions, is better suited to cutting teeth individually..
    CNC/CAM

    numbers indicate a specific alloy mix.
    7xxx series adds Zinc to the alloy, none in 6xxx
    6xxx is trace Si [ .6%], not found in in 7xxx.

    [Ref Machinery's handbook 23rd Ed, pg 604, nominal compositions]
    Last edited by fietsbob; 07-29-11 at 02:12 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •