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Old 07-29-11, 11:23 AM   #1
tomecki
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What components to use for a light and strong road wheel - money does matter.

I recently found out the hard way that I'm too fat for my Mavic Aksiums (220 lb). I'm doing some research on a replacement. I've seen a similar thread recently but I'm looking for something strong/durable and relatively light and not too expensive. I know that's a hard combination to satisfy but I'm sure people here will have some good suggestions.

I've been looking at something in the range of Ultegra hub and Mavic Open Pro rim. Also considering 105 hub which is much cheaper but I don't know how much durability would suffer.
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Old 07-29-11, 11:56 AM   #2
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Another trying to have it both ways thread AND posing a light weight racing clincher as an option...2nd this week alone.

Is this a troll? Or are you just happy to be on Bike Forums?

KinLin MX4
Velocity DeepV
Mavic 319
Mavic 719
DT TK540

...if you want strong.

=8-)
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Old 07-29-11, 12:11 PM   #3
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Just happy to be here

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 07-29-11, 12:35 PM   #4
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I would add Alex Adventurer, Salsa Delgado, and Sun CR18 to that list of rims provided you have the clearance. As far as the 105 hub goes, properly serviced, it should last a long time.

edit: just read the "light and strong" stipulation in the op. my rim suggestions probably aren't light, but they are strong.

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Old 07-29-11, 04:31 PM   #5
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Open Pro? NO! I don't even put moderately heavy people on that rim.

Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss RR585 is what you want. 105 hubs are fine if well cared for. There are also plenty of inexpensive sealed bearing hubs on the market these days, too.

Don't skimp and find a good builder (where are you?) and you can have absolutely trouble-free wheels.
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Old 07-29-11, 10:04 PM   #6
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Open Pro? NO! I don't even put moderately heavy people on that rim.

Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss RR585 is what you want. 105 hubs are fine if well cared for. There are also plenty of inexpensive sealed bearing hubs on the market these days, too.

Don't skimp and find a good builder (where are you?) and you can have absolutely trouble-free wheels.
Thanks a lot, guys. I read that the Open Pro is a strong rim but obviously not strong enough for me. I researched the suggestions and I'm leaning towards the Deep V. Any specific inexpensive sealed bearing hubs I should consider?

I'm in Vancouver in Canada.
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Old 07-29-11, 10:50 PM   #7
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... I'm looking for something strong/durable and relatively light and not too expensive. ...
That violates a Keith Bontrager aphorism: "Strong. Light. Cheap. Pick Two." http://bontrager.com/history/a-brief-history
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Old 07-29-11, 11:35 PM   #8
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skip the deep v and do the velocity chukkers. i work in a bike shop and we've had a lot of people with this problem and we always point them to the chukkers. they're much like the deep v but stronger, originally designed for bike polo.
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Old 07-29-11, 11:48 PM   #9
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At 220 pounds, my first thought was 36-spoke Deep V with a Tiagra rear hub. Tiagra is effectively 105 with a Tiagra logo, great value.

If you're looking for a wider rim than the Deep V, but aren't ready for a 650-gram Chukker, there's always the Dyad at about 480 grams. It's a popular tandem & touring rim. But I think the Deep V would be a better pick if you're using tires in the 23-28mm range, and they're still pretty stiff.

In any case, ask around at the bike clubs to find a reputable local wheelbuilder. After you've had about a month on the wheel, take it in to the original builder for a check-up.
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Old 07-30-11, 05:58 AM   #10
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220lbs isn't that heavy, having been there, and used light weigh wheels, I never had any issues, if going factory, have had success with Fulcrum 5's & 7's, for hand build, any Shimano hub & Open Pros, with double butted spokes, all are cheap(ish) options which don't compromise the strong and light factors. There arn't too many wheels out there which have max user weights, Reynolds do have a few limits, from their FAQ's

Weight recommendations-
Cirro, KOM- Up to 175 lbs.
Stratus DV UL 16/20 spoke count. Up to 190 lbs. Recommended spoke count 20/24 for over 190 lbs

but they are normally for the higher end wheels, even if you are 220lbs now, get riding, and it will start to come down
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Old 07-30-11, 08:03 AM   #11
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Mavic Open Sport, 105 hub, and 36 double butted spokes. Friend who lost down to 180 and because of illness got back up to 250. Wheel has done well.
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Old 07-30-11, 08:59 AM   #12
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I've run both Mavic CXP 33's & 22's (32 spoke) on 105 hubs and have nothing but good things to say about them. Are they the lightest? No. I'm 6'4, 217 & ride a 61cm bike and these wheels have been absolutely fabulous. Regardless, I do however strongly recommend hand built wheels.
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Old 07-30-11, 09:43 AM   #13
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They all need service, to stay strong..

keep up the tension and truing on all of them

30 year old E2, Campag, hub, 36x DT 15Ga straight spokes
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Old 07-30-11, 09:55 AM   #14
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Open Pro? NO! I don't even put moderately heavy people on that rim.

Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss RR585 is what you want. 105 hubs are fine if well cared for. There are also plenty of inexpensive sealed bearing hubs on the market these days, too.

Don't skimp and find a good builder (where are you?) and you can have absolutely trouble-free wheels.
Open Pros are plenty strong enough for the weight of the OP. You are over-selling the need for heavier rims unless the OP wants to run wider tires or do off-street riding.

The Open Pro/Ultegra would be a good choice. Lots of these are ridden hard to no ill effect. They are also widely available as ready-made wheels.
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Old 07-30-11, 10:08 AM   #15
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Open Pros are plenty strong enough for the weight of the OP. You are over-selling the need for heavier rims unless the OP wants to run wider tires or do off-street riding.

The Open Pro/Ultegra would be a good choice. Lots of these are ridden hard to no ill effect. They are also widely available as ready-made wheels.
CHenry:

You will provide your address and phone number privately and offer your free wheel truing and rebuilding support should the OP experience issues using an Open Pro for everyday recreational and commute use will you not?

Bottom line is - I can run Open Pros everyday if I want - I can also support my own wheels. BUT I never push my personal preference onto a customer as a recommendation unless the customer INSISTS and has no problem with the potentional issues that may arise. Some customers don't care and will literally say, "Build it! I'll pay for it - and again if I have to. I don't care!"

But as a default rule - I don't go there. That's part of professionalism in the wheel building trade.

=8-)
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Old 07-30-11, 11:28 AM   #16
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At 220#s the first priority should be a rim that will nicely take a wider tire. Increasing tire section, and proportionately lowering tire pressure will go a long way to reducing the G's when you hit bumps, thereby improving the life of any wheel.

Next step, 14g double butted spokes will both save weight and improve resiliency. You might also look for so called triple-butted spokes, ie 2.3-1.7-2.0 or similar for greater elbow strength. Have the builder use lighter gauges on the left side rear to offset the effects of asymmetry.

For the hub, anything decent will do. Even mediocre hubs last forever. If going Shimano, the 105 is a good value choice.

Lastly, make sure you have a skilled builder put this together for you. The quality of the build is at least as important as the quality of the materials. Having expensive stuff built poorly is simply throwing your dough away.

Strenght, low weight, and decent cost aren't mutually exclusive. Granted there are no hidden miracles, but there is a lot of decent quality, reasonably light stuff available at fairly low prices. If you try to take any of the three to the extreme, the others will suffer, but it is very possible to strike a good balance. I've built light tandem wheels that have gone cross country without problems, and not had to use anything fancy.
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Old 07-30-11, 01:20 PM   #17
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CHenry:

You will provide your address and phone number privately and offer your free wheel truing and rebuilding support should the OP experience issues using an Open Pro for everyday recreational and commute use will you not?

Bottom line is - I can run Open Pros everyday if I want - I can also support my own wheels. BUT I never push my personal preference onto a customer as a recommendation unless the customer INSISTS and has no problem with the potentional issues that may arise. Some customers don't care and will literally say, "Build it! I'll pay for it - and again if I have to. I don't care!"

But as a default rule - I don't go there. That's part of professionalism in the wheel building trade.

=8-)
A nice way to up-sell. I am sure it must work for you in your business. But it seems more or less like asking the barber if you need a haircut, except you get to ply a safety and longevity angle.

"Strong," "light," "not too expensive," said the OP. The engineer's paradox. You can't have all of them, so the real question is what kind of compromise is reasonable and realistic.

This is in place of Aksiums, so we're not fitting wheels to a touring bike or even a cx bike. "Wider tire" might be limited to 30mm, and realistically, 28mm, supposing the OP really even wants that. He didn't say.

I have several sets of hand-built wheels, made by highly-reputable wheelbuilders. I have built wheelsets of my own and ride them regularly. I have bought ready-made "machine-built" wheels on Campagnolo and DA hubs, with Open Pro rims. I am even heavier than the OP, and those wheels have never given me a problem. Did I buy them with the idea that they would never go out of true? Of course not. Everything eventually wears out. Everything eventually needs maintenance, even high-priced hand-assembled and trued wheels.

I think that for the money, the 32h Open Pros that the major catalog sellers blow out regularly with your choice of road hubs, DAs, Ultegras, Record, etc., are a screaming good value, not perfect, not "maintenance free" but reliable, affordable and available.

And I am not selling hand-built wheels so I have no dog in that fight.
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Old 07-30-11, 01:33 PM   #18
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There was a couple of Ritchey Girder OCR rims on Ebay recently. Haven't tried the 28"/622 mm version, but I've been very pleased with the 26"/559 mm model. The assymetric rim takes the edge of the spoke tension imbalance.
Built to a mid-range Shimano hub ought to give you a rather nice cost/performance compromise.
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Old 07-30-11, 04:40 PM   #19
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A nice way to up-sell. I am sure it must work for you in your business. But it seems more or less like asking the barber if you need a haircut, except you get to ply a safety and longevity angle.

"Strong," "light," "not too expensive," said the OP. The engineer's paradox. You can't have all of them, so the real question is what kind of compromise is reasonable and realistic.

This is in place of Aksiums, so we're not fitting wheels to a touring bike or even a cx bike. "Wider tire" might be limited to 30mm, and realistically, 28mm, supposing the OP really even wants that. He didn't say.

I have several sets of hand-built wheels, made by highly-reputable wheelbuilders. I have built wheelsets of my own and ride them regularly. I have bought ready-made "machine-built" wheels on Campagnolo and DA hubs, with Open Pro rims. I am even heavier than the OP, and those wheels have never given me a problem. Did I buy them with the idea that they would never go out of true? Of course not. Everything eventually wears out. Everything eventually needs maintenance, even high-priced hand-assembled and trued wheels.

I think that for the money, the 32h Open Pros that the major catalog sellers blow out regularly with your choice of road hubs, DAs, Ultegras, Record, etc., are a screaming good value, not perfect, not "maintenance free" but reliable, affordable and available.

And I am not selling hand-built wheels so I have no dog in that fight.
"Upsell?"

Okay, I'll bite...

"I'll take a 5 gallon bucket of "red" and a 12" brush if you have one please..."

Figured since you are so good at it - you must have supplies too...

=8-)
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Old 07-30-11, 05:35 PM   #20
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"Upsell?"

Okay, I'll bite...

"I'll take a 5 gallon bucket of "red" and a 12" brush if you have one please..."

Figured since you are so good at it - you must have supplies too...

=8-)
Whatever floats your boat.

The OP was interested in suggestions about wheels that would work for him, within his limitations of budget, features and quality. Your reply seems more about what works best for you, as a wheel builder, not wanting work coming back with problems you might have to fix later.

Since he is replacing Aksiums, which are a "value"- oriented lightweight road wheelset, with 20h hubs (so Mavic advertises, he did not specify) he says are not strong enough for his riding weight, a 32h 3x cross "traditional" road wheelset, what anymore are sold as training wheelsets, would probably be fine, even with Open Pros. Since these are also available ready-made with the grade of hubs he would like, and are often available at discount, they might fit his requirements very well.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the only good rides can be had on hand-built wheels. That is just plain laughable. It gets repeated on these forums as if it were religion, not surprisingly by people who sell wheelbuilds.

If you have a big budget, or want a specific combination of hub, spoke and rim that is not common, then custom wheelbuilding is the way to go. But if you just want a decent, strong wheelset that doesn't break the bank, get the ready-mades. Lots of people are happy with them and they really do work fine.
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Old 07-30-11, 05:57 PM   #21
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Whatever floats your boat.

The OP was interested in suggestions about wheels that would work for him, within his limitations of budget, features and quality. Your reply seems more about what works best for you, as a wheel builder, not wanting work coming back with problems you might have to fix later.

Since he is replacing Aksiums, which are a "value"- oriented lightweight road wheelset, with 20h hubs (so Mavic advertises, he did not specify) he says are not strong enough for his riding weight, a 32h 3x cross "traditional" road wheelset, what anymore are sold as training wheelsets, would probably be fine, even with Open Pros. Since these are also available ready-made with the grade of hubs he would like, and are often available at discount, they might fit his requirements very well.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the only good rides can be had on hand-built wheels. That is just plain laughable. It gets repeated on these forums as if it were religion, not surprisingly by people who sell wheelbuilds.

If you have a big budget, or want a specific combination of hub, spoke and rim that is not common, then custom wheelbuilding is the way to go. But if you just want a decent, strong wheelset that doesn't break the bank, get the ready-mades. Lots of people are happy with them and they really do work fine.
Misrepresent others much?

Did you even bother to read?

Or do you just like to twist what other people say into something they didn't say?

Also, noticed that you ducked the support question in regards to pushing a personal recommendation.

=8-)
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4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
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Old 07-30-11, 06:25 PM   #22
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Drop the "light" from your requirements, keep the strong and affordable. I like the Mavic with the Shimano 105 combo mentioned above.
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Old 07-30-11, 06:33 PM   #23
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Aksyums are ok for the price but dont ask too much of them. IMO mavic has designed awesome stuff as pretty bad stuff at the same time. That being said...

rims... kinlin or velocity 32 or 36 spokes traditional 3x crosing in both wheels

Hubs... miche rc2 is my 1st pick. Cheap and good stuff, easy to service, ceramic bearings available in the market as well. For the price U cant complain. Some probably would pick shimano but those hubs are everywhere and are more expensive than the miche ones.

Spokes, just straight gauge or double butted, just keep it simple and they will last forever.

Another solution and maybe cheaper is just go to ebay and get a set of wheels in 32 spokes built with mavic rims and if they last 2 years u got your money's worth because usually those wheels go for around 150 bucks a pair.
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Old 07-30-11, 08:46 PM   #24
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I recently found out the hard way that I'm too fat for my Mavic Aksiums (220 lb).
I bet the rear suffered, but what about the front? Front wheels have it much easier; you may just need a stronger rear.

It may even be possible (if the spoke count is high enough) to rebuild your rear hub into a strong enough wheel - but if it's much under 32h the rim will need to be heavier than otherwise necessary.

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