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  1. #1
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    2012 Shimano Tiagra 12-30 ten speed cassette

    Has Shimano gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra?

    I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette on the Harris website: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#10

    The cassette is a dream-come-true for Shimano 105 & Ultegra road bikes that need one more low gear.

    Is the quality the same as 5600 105 ten speed?

  2. #2
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    Interesting item. Shimano's web site still list Tiagra as 9-speed but the cassette page is nearly blank on details so maybe they are going to make it 10-speed for 2012.

    Harris used to make custom wider range cassettes by adding a larger big cog and deleting one of the intermediate cogs on stock Shimano 9-speed cassettes. They took a 12x27 9-speed cassette, replaced the 12 And 13T cogs with a 1st position 13T cog and added a spacer and 30 or 32T large cog behind the 27. This worrked with 9-speed but not 10-speed due to the shape of the back of the largest 10-speed cogs. Also they were more expensive than the stock cassettes and more than the $50 for the one you referenced.

    Maybe this new 10-speed cassette will be a stock Shimano item. Tiagra should be equivalent to 105 in quality and durability but will probably weigh a bit more.

  3. #3
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    Has Shimano gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra?

    I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette......
    Yes, 2012 Tiagra is ten speed. The 12-30 cassette is a response to SRAM Apex. Getting very wide range 10 speed cassettes is a non-issue now, though, with the higher end mountain bike groups having gone to 10 speed now as well. Although that 30t largest cog may be a sweet spot for a lot of folks who don't want a 32t or more.

    Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex."

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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex."
    Let us know how long the novelty of that setup lasts. I suspect you'll want to return to your triple and tighter cassette after a few hard rides.

  5. #5
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Yes, 2012 Tiagra is ten speed. The 12-30 cassette is a response to SRAM Apex. Getting very wide range 10 speed cassettes is a non-issue now, though, with the higher end mountain bike groups having gone to 10 speed now as well. Although that 30t largest cog may be a sweet spot for a lot of folks who don't want a 32t or more.

    Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex."
    I did the same and had no problem with the Ultegra GS rear Deraillear and the Apex 11-32 cassette.

    The spacing on the 12-30 is close to ideal. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against.

    I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my Commuter/ultra-light touring bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-17-11 at 07:35 AM.

  6. #6
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    Let us know how long the novelty of that setup lasts. I suspect you'll want to return to your triple and tighter cassette after a few hard rides.
    Nah, I'm loving it. No more road triples for me. Touring triples and mtb triples, yes. But the new drivetrain I described above keeps things simple and gives me the climbing gears I need. If it's not for you, fine; but no need to be rude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Nah, I'm loving it. No more road triples for me. Touring triples and mtb triples, yes. But the new drivetrain I described above keeps things simple and gives me the climbing gears I need. If it's not for you, fine; but no need to be rude.
    It wasn't my intention to be rude but my post does have a bit of bite to it now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.

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    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    It wasn't my intention to be rude but my post does have a bit of bite to it now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.
    No prob.

    And I do understand about the Apex-like stuff not being for everybody. But for that person who wants the simplicity of double shifting up front with some very low climbing gears, it really is a nice setup.

    I've sold quite a few bikes equipped with Apex, and all of those folks seem to love it. And I retrofitted a couple of older racing bikes with it for a customer I have a lot of respect for, riding-wise. He loves it, and his testimony lead me to try it on my own bike, albeit with Shimano parts. It's not that that gearing is anything new, what's new is that in the ten speed era there hasn't been much available in very wide range 10 speed cassettes until now. I think it just opens up a lot of possibilities, and I'm kind of excited about it.

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    Woohoo, cheaper 10-speed cassettes! I'm all for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    The spacing on the 12-30 is close to ideal.

    I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my Commuter/ultra-light touring bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.
    I'm running similar gearing on one of bike with a 52/42/26 triple and a 12x27 10-speed. My problem with the 12x30 is that you lose the 16T cog which I find extremely useful and the 26x27 low is plenty for me for anything but loaded touring. Actually the 12T is pretty much a waste for me with the 52T big ring and i wish Shimano made a 13x30 cassette which would allow the 16T to remain.

    Actually my ideal setup is on another bike with a Campy 53/42/26 Chorus triple and Campy's 13x29 10-speed cassette. The 53x13 is plenty high for any of my riding, the 26x29 is almost touring bike low and the 16T is there.

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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Tiagra should be equivalent to 105 in quality and durability but will probably weigh a bit more.
    I expect Tiagra will use plate cogs rather than the spidered cogs on 105/Ultegra, so yeah, I bet there'll be a notable weight difference, but equivalent longevity. SRAM PG1050 cassettes are an alternative, and have aluminum spiders for the bigger cogs.

    I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.
    Well, SRAM refuses to offer triple road cranks and brifters so the only way they can get any reasonably low gear is to offer a very wide range cassette. I prefer the Shimano approach as triples let you have really low gears without a lot of big gaps in the gears you use most. Unfortunately Campy has moved away from triples for all of it's major groups too. I have the last generation of Chorus triple cranks and have to plan on using it for a long time.

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    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Actually my ideal setup is on another bike with a Campy 53/42/26 Chorus triple and Campy's 13x29 10-speed cassette.
    I love the Campy 13 x 29 10 speed cassette, too. It's been on one of my bikes for three years now, combined with a compact (50/34) up front. Great combo for me. I refer to that cassette on my Campy-equipped bike as my last defense against a triple.

    And please don't take that as an insult to triple-users. I've ridden a lot of triples, and appreciate them, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.
    Shimano has always allowed you to do what SRAM Apex does. Granted before the "road compact" crank, to mount 50/34 rings would have required using a touring triple crank with no granny but the idea of an extra long cage derailler with wide range cassette that works with road shifters is nothing new. It's been possible for as long as Shimano has made integrated road shifters.

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    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    Shimano has always allowed you to do what SRAM Apex does.
    But not with ten speed cassettes, and the ten speed road component era has been on us for a long time. Not until mtb cassettes went 10 speed and SRAM Apex, and now with the sort of in-between 30t largest cog like in the OP, there are even more 10 speed possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    But not with ten speed cassettes, and the ten speed road component era has been on us for a long time. Not until mtb cassettes went 10 speed and SRAM Apex, and now with the sort of in-between 30t largest cog like in the OP, there are even more 10 speed possibilities.
    Right, Shimano did sort of drop the ball when going to ten speed. We all knew it would eventually happen but SRAM beat them to it. However, throughout that period of lag, Shimano has always offered something comparable in range but with much less percentage gap between shifts using a road triple and 12/27 cassette. And the low end can be expanded far more than Apex simply by swapping out the granny too. I built such a bike back in 2005 with the newly introduced Ultegra 6600 shifters and a 52/42/30 crankset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    I refer to that cassette on my Campy-equipped bike as my last defense against a triple.

    And please don't take that as an insult to triple-users. I've ridden a lot of triples, and appreciate them, too.
    Not insulted in the least.

  18. #18
    just pokin' along desertdork's Avatar
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    About two weeks ago, I noticed the 10sp Tiagra cassettes on the Harris site. A search for various 4600 series components showed that they were already available at numerous UK sites. The 4600 STI levers (199) are designed like the earlier levers with external shift cables.
    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Interesting item. Shimano's web site still list Tiagra as 9-speed but the cassette page is nearly blank on details so maybe they are going to make it 10-speed for 2012.
    The new components show up under tech docs (http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs...&bmUID=iDDUroI). It's interesting that Shimano is also marketing a new series of 10sp flat bar shifters and brake levers that are compatible with the road FDs and caliper brakes. Should open up another door for people looking at flat bar conversions.

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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
    About two weeks ago, I noticed the 10sp Tiagra cassettes on the Harris site. A search for various 4600 series components showed that they were already available at numerous UK sites. The 4600 STI levers (199) are designed like the earlier levers with external shift cables.

    The new components show up under tech docs (http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs...&bmUID=iDDUroI). It's interesting that Shimano is also marketing a new series of 10sp flat bar shifters and brake levers that are compatible with the road FDs and caliper brakes. Should open up another door for people looking at flat bar conversions.
    You can also oogle some of the 4600 components by pulling up the page for the corresponding 4500 component, then changing the URL in your browser's address bar to 4600. e.g. http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html

  20. #20
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    I'm running similar gearing on one of bike with a 52/42/26 triple and a 12x27 10-speed. My problem with the 12x30 is that you lose the 16T cog which I find extremely useful and the 26x27 low is plenty for me for anything but loaded touring. Actually the 12T is pretty much a waste for me with the 52T big ring and i wish Shimano made a 13x30 cassette which would allow the 16T to remain.
    I agree, the 16t is nice, but the gearing with the 12-30 & 50,39 & 26t triple provides a close set of gears and MTB like 26 X 30. See below;



    I'm also going to keep an 11-23 cassette for shorter or flatter routes that don't require such a wide range. the 11-23t will provide both a 11t & a 16t cog for faster routes.

    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-17-11 at 07:39 PM.

  21. #21
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    We have compacts 50/34 with 34t max rear cogs. WTF more 10 speed gearing do you need people? Really!
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    We have compacts 50/34 with 34t max rear cogs. WTF more 10 speed gearing do you need people? Really!
    Welcome back. We haven't heard your smiling sarcasm for some time.

    My problem with a compact crank and a very wide range cassette is that to get the low gear you leave huge holes in the intermediate steps. The "complexity" of a triple is nowhere near the sacrifice that giving up all those intermediate cogs is.

  23. #23
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Welcome back. We haven't heard your smiling sarcasm for some time.
    +1

  24. #24
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    My problem with a compact crank and a very wide range cassette is that to get the low gear you leave huge holes in the intermediate steps. The "complexity" of a triple is nowhere near the sacrifice that giving up all those intermediate cogs is.
    +1;


  25. #25
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    ^^On my "Shimapex" setup I described, I'm actually using a 12-32 10sp SRAM cassette (1070), and it does have a 14t cog; it would bother me if I didn't have that cog. Your chart shows a big jump where the 14t cog would be on the compact double setup with 11 x 32 ten speed cassette. Again, it's all about the individual. I rarely use the 50-12 (highest gear) on my setup, for example, and certainly don't need the kind of gear inches on the top end that your chart shows on both the double and triple setups.
    Last edited by well biked; 08-18-11 at 11:58 AM.

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