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Old 08-20-11, 06:54 PM   #1
lostarchitect 
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Spoke length weirdness

Hi guys,

I'm about to start my first wheelbuild. I disassembled the existing wheels and kept all the spokes in 3 labeled bundles from the front wheel, rear drive side, and rear non-drive side.

I have measured the existing spokes again and again to try to determine the size spokes I need to order, and I keep getting 308mm... on all of them. Whether they're from the front, or either rear side. This is from a wheel on an old 10 speed with a 5 speed freewheel. (27" Fiamme yellow clincher rims, large flange Campagnolo "nuovo tipo" hubs)

Shouldn't the rear wheel spokes be different on the different sides due to the dish? I'm a little confused here. Thanks for any light you can shed on this.
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Last edited by lostarchitect; 08-20-11 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:20 PM   #2
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wide flange Campagnolo ?? big difference between wide flange and high flange... for me wide flange are track hubs so wouldn't surprise me u got equal spokes for everything.

This is what I get using the right stuff.. if the store has 2 mms shorter it wont make that big of a difference., Enjoy. Put the numbers somewhere else tho, just to be sure.


Hub: Campagnolo all 126mm hi-flange models, rear
Rim: Fiamme Ergal (Yellow Label)
Number of spokes: 36
Crosses: 3
Spoke length left: 294.2
Spoke length right: 292.8


Hub: Campagnolo all hi-flange models, front
Rim: Fiamme Ergal (Yellow Label)
Number of spokes: 36
Crosses: 3
Spoke length left: 294
Spoke length right: 294

Last edited by ultraman6970; 08-20-11 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:27 PM   #3
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Sorry, wrong term I guess. Velobase calls it "large flange". It's these hubs: http://www.velobase.com/velobase.com...m=110&AbsPos=1

36 hole, and 4 cross lacing.

Where did you enter those numbers?

edit: also I think the Fiamme yellow ergal rims are not the same ones I have... I think mine are the "professional" model, based on the labels shown on Velobase: http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=107&AbsPos=5

Thanks!
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Old 08-20-11, 07:38 PM   #4
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4x? easy... based on this i would pick everything in 305. Where I got this? secret Just pull spoke calculation at google, bunch of tables and stuff, since I get 305 and u 308 I would go to another site to just be sure, 3 mm is too much difference.

Hub: Campagnolo all 126mm hi-flange models, rear
Rim: Fiamme Ergal (Yellow Label)
Number of spokes: 36
Crosses: 4
Spoke length left: 305.4
Spoke length right: 304


Hub: Campagnolo all hi-flange models, front
Rim: Fiamme Ergal (Yellow Label)
Number of spokes: 36
Crosses: 4
Spoke length left: 305.2
Spoke length right: 305.2
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Old 08-20-11, 07:41 PM   #5
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U might need this too, just wonder if there is a difference in the ERD for that rim but pretty much all the stuff back in the day was 617 to 620

Fiamme Ergal (Yellow Label)

ERD: 617
OSB: 0
Size: 700C


Campagnolo all hi-flange models, front

Right flange : 67
Left flange : 67
Centre to right flange: 34
Centre to left flange: 34
Spoke hole : 2.3

Campagnolo all 126mm hi-flange models, rear

Right flange : 67
Left flange : 67
Centre to right flange: 21
Centre to left flange: 36
Spoke hole : 2.3
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Old 08-20-11, 07:51 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the help, you are awesome!

The only thing that worries me, is the rim is not the yellow fiamme ergal, it's the 27" yellow fiamme professional, which I can't seem to find on any of the spoke calculators... hmmm...

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=107&AbsPos=5
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Old 08-20-11, 08:06 PM   #7
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The rear hub is likely a 120 or 122mm hub folks...hence using same size spokes all around is okay...

Aiming for the screwdriver flat of the nipples:

Front 4X = 305.37

Rear Left 4X = 305.26
Rear Right 4X = 304.42

My guess is the original spokes had 12mm threading instead of 10mm threading...and the nipples (10mm) allowed a good 2-3mm of poke-through through the top of the nipples.

Very common back in the 60s and 70s...

=8-)
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4000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 08-20-11, 08:12 PM   #8
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Thanks, MrRabbit. Yes, rear hub is 120mm according to Velobase. The length of the threaded area on the spokes varies a little but seems to be about 10mm typically, sometimes 9mm. The nipples are about 11mm long, but they have a raised head--a dome of about 1mm. These made noticeable bumps under the rim tape.
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Old 08-20-11, 08:29 PM   #9
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Are these single wall rims taking tires and tubes?

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 08-20-11, 08:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Are these single wall rims taking tires and tubes?

=8-)
Hopefully!
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Old 08-20-11, 08:59 PM   #11
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U can measure the ERD and the hub distances with a caliper and stick that into any spoke calculator man... Sadly I have no idea whats the ERD for that rim and is not listed in any of the spreadsheets i have. sorry.
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Old 08-20-11, 09:05 PM   #12
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Thanks for all your help, I will try the manual measurement.
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Old 08-20-11, 09:09 PM   #13
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If they are single wall rims - in 27" - the ERD is 620mm to as much as 622mm. That would allow spoke lengths of 307.00mm and 308.00mm using 4 cross lacing.

=8-)

http://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

Grab the spreadsheet...the hubs are in the bottom third under pre-1994 hubs.

=8-)
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4000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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