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  1. #1
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    10speed mtb + what durace shifter?

    I'd like to run new shimano 10speed drivetrain with a durace barend shifter(in index mode). Does 10sp mtb use 7900-style cable pull ratio or will it work with 7800 shifters instead(or both?)

  2. #2
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    10sp Shimano mountain rear shifting is mutually exclusive of 10sp Shimano road shifters of any kind. The solution to your plan is to use a 9sp Shimano mountain rear derailleur, which actuates like 10sp and 9sp Shimano road does.

    A 10sp Shimano road rear derailleur would also fly, if it can handle the chain takeup duties involved, and if it works with the size of cassette that you'll be using.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    10sp Shimano mountain rear shifting is mutually exclusive of 10sp Shimano road shifters of any kind. The solution to your plan is to use a 9sp Shimano mountain rear derailleur, which actuates like 10sp and 9sp Shimano road does.

    A 10sp Shimano road rear derailleur would also fly, if it can handle the chain takeup duties involved, and if it works with the size of cassette that you'll be using.
    +1.

    I have a touring bike with Ultegra 10 speed shifters, chain and cassette, and an XT 9 speed derailleur... and it works great.

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    Shimano MTB Dyna-Sys (10 speed) isn't compatible with their road 10 speed, you will need to keep to an all road or all MTB groupset if you want 10 speed.

    There are enough gear ratios available now in the road groupsets so you shouldn't need to attempt a mix and match that won't work.

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    That is disappointing. I was hoping to switch to a shadow derailleur + 11-36 cassette. I guess I'll have to mix&match 3 groupsets to make it work. 10speed 7600 barshifters, 9speed shadow + 10speed mtb cassette.


    Thanks for the quick replies.

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Why do you need 10?, name the ratio you would miss if you used a 9 speed based drive train?
    do the math.

    you may gain nothing at great expense.

  7. #7
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolong View Post
    That is disappointing. I was hoping to switch to a shadow derailleur + 11-36 cassette. I guess I'll have to mix&match 3 groupsets to make it work. 10speed 7600 barshifters, 9speed shadow + 10speed mtb cassette.


    Thanks for the quick replies.
    I don't understand why you say you are disappointed. You say you want to use an 11 x 36 ten speed cassette, ten speed Dura Ace bar end shifters, and a Shadow rear derailleur. All of that will work, as long as you get a Shadow rear derailleur that's not Dyna Sys. Well, I say all that, but I haven't actually used a Shimano Dyna Sys ten speed cassette myself, but I have used a SRAM ten speed mtb cassette with a similar setup (ten speed road shifters, "nine speed" Shimano mtb rear derailleur, wide range SRAM ten speed mtb cassette). It works flawlessly.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    I don't understand why you say you are disappointed. You say you want to use an 11 x 36 ten speed cassette, ten speed Dura Ace bar end shifters, and a Shadow rear derailleur. All of that will work, as long as you get a Shadow rear derailleur that's not Dyna Sys. Well, I say all that, but I haven't actually used a Shimano Dyna Sys ten speed cassette myself, but I have used a SRAM ten speed mtb cassette with a similar setup (ten speed road shifters, "nine speed" Shimano mtb rear derailleur, wide range SRAM ten speed mtb cassette). It works flawlessly.
    Just sad that there is yet another shifter ratio. As to why I want to go 10sp: 11-36 cassettes, can't do that in 9sp. I'd happily stick to 9sp otherwise. That and my drivetrain is pretty dead anyways, replacing it with all new 9sp vs all new 10sp is only more expensive due to having to switch the rear shifter.

  9. #9
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolong View Post
    Just sad that there is yet another shifter ratio.
    Yeah, I hear you on that. One thing that was nice about Shimano, except for eight speed and earlier Dura Ace, it was plug and play regarding cable pull ratio for all their rear indexing components; it was all the same. Now Dyna Sys is thrown into the mix. Shimano has done quite a few things lately in response to the way SRAM stuff feels, including the feel of SRAM mtb shifting. That's why Dyna Sys was born if I were going to guess.

  10. #10
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    10sp Shimano mountain rear shifting is mutually exclusive of 10sp Shimano road shifters of any kind.
    Hey, do you know if the ten speed Dyna Sys cassettes have different cog spacing than other Shimano and SRAM ten speed cassettes? I was just looking at some specs on the QBP site and the Dyna Sys cassettes are listed as having "Shimano mountain 10" spacing, whereas other Shimano ten speed and SRAM ten speed cassettes are listed as "Shimano 10 RD/SRAM 10" in regard to cog spacing.

    If the cog spacing is different with Dyna Sys, then toolong will need to use a SRAM 10 speed cassette in 11 x 36 to work with the Dura Ace ten speed bar end shifters and non-Dyna Sys Shimano Shadow RD.
    Last edited by well biked; 08-21-11 at 02:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Hey, do you know if the ten speed Dyna Sys cassettes have different cog spacing than other Shimano and SRAM ten speed cassettes? I was just looking at some specs on the QBP site and the Dyna Sys cassettes are listed as having "Shimano mountain 10" spacing, whereas other Shimano ten speed and SRAM ten speed cassettes are listed as "Shimano 10 RD/SRAM 10" in regard to cog spacing.

    If the cog spacing is different with Dyna Sys, then toolong will need to use a SRAM 10 speed cassette in 11 x 36 to work with the Dura Ace ten speed bar end shifters and non-Dyna Sys Shimano Shadow RD.
    I've compared an XT 10sp to an Ultegra 10sp. They're precisely the same width from the big cog to the smallest one. I didn't go to the extent of measuring the individual gaps, but it's safe to say they're compatible.

    As another "common denominator," look around and you'll see the exact same SRAM 10sp cassettes being mixed and matched with both road and mountain Shimano drivetrains on factory-equipped bikes... there aren't two "flavors" of 10-speed PG-1050s and so forth, the same one is compatible with both road and mountain. If Shimano's 10sp mountain cassettes were, in fact, laid out differently, then SRAM would have to have two types of their 10sp cassettes in order to be Shimano-compatible.

    In regards to "oh noes, not ANOTHER new cable-throw pattern," I think DynaSys's increased cable travel is beneficial to the intended use, just like SRAM's 1:1 setup:

    1. Full-suspension bikes flex the piece of cable housing that links the frame to the rear swingarm, and that can be enough to cause ghost-shifting. Increasing the cable travel makes that proportionately less critical.

    2. Mountain bikes tend to get contamination in the housings, and increasing the cable travel can reduce the impact of the cable not wanting to move that last 1/4 of a millimeter into its intended position due to contamination.

  12. #12
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    I've compared an XT 10sp to an Ultegra 10sp. They're precisely the same width from the big cog to the smallest one. I didn't go to the extent of measuring the individual gaps, but it's safe to say they're compatible.

    As another "common denominator," look around and you'll see the exact same SRAM 10sp cassettes being mixed and matched with both road and mountain Shimano drivetrains on factory-equipped bikes... there aren't two "flavors" of 10-speed PG-1050s and so forth, the same one is compatible with both road and mountain. If Shimano's 10sp mountain cassettes were, in fact, laid out differently, then SRAM would have to have two types of their 10sp cassettes in order to be Shimano-compatible.

    In regards to "oh noes, not ANOTHER new cable-throw pattern," I think DynaSys's increased cable travel is beneficial to the intended use, just like SRAM's 1:1 setup:

    1. Full-suspension bikes flex the piece of cable housing that links the frame to the rear swingarm, and that can be enough to cause ghost-shifting. Increasing the cable travel makes that proportionately less critical.

    2. Mountain bikes tend to get contamination in the housings, and increasing the cable travel can reduce the impact of the cable not wanting to move that last 1/4 of a millimeter into its intended position due to contamination.
    Thanks, you make some very good points. I did find it hard to believe that Shimano's 10 speed mtb cassettes used a different center-to-center cog spacing than their other 10 speed cassettes, it just surprised me that under the category of "cog spacing" on the QBP site they used different terminology for the Dyna Sys cassettes and it made me wonder.

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