Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-27-11, 04:35 PM   #1
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Braze-on brazed off - how to mount new FD?

So I bought a bike which I wanted to use for both hill climbing (Mt Wash) but convert back to conventional use otherwise. The shop somehow misunderstood this and cut off the braze-on tab for the FD so that they could a mtn (SRAM) FD/crank setup. This worked great for the hill cimb stuff.

When I asked them to convert back I found out what they had done. It's an Allez E-5 frame which has a square-ish seat tube. They're thinking about this now...

Am I hosed?

Jim
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 05:35 PM   #2
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They did what u told them to do, dont think is their fault, u should have told them "dont cut the tab under any circumstances in case i want the bike back to its previous state" to start with. This is the usual problem when the guy wants something too special, have no idea how to achieve it because his mechanical skills sucks and then he send the bike to a shop where the mechs maybe know less than him (i think I'm right, sorry)

Well the only solution i see is to weld back the tab or maybe use screws or even rivets. Not hard to do after all. A new tab are like 10 bucks maybe less. Since I dont know the frame have no idea if you can use a clamp in there. Maybe not.

Good luck.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 05:41 PM   #3
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Bikes:
Posts: 5,973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
frantik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 06:32 PM   #4
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sure it was an honest mistake/misunderstanding. The setup was their recommendation; I didn't realize it was a braze-on and that they were going to do this. But that's water under the bridge.

The intent was to be able to switch back and forth, so welding the tab back on would not facilitate this, although I think if I had this to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would ignore the FD and just use a fixed mtn chain ring.

The current FD is an SRAM XX that is clamped.
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 07:39 PM   #5
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,847
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
If you can use the clamped XX, why can't you use a road derailleur with a clamp? Are the clamps positioned that differently?
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 08:09 PM   #6
motobecane69
Banned.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
just get the clamp adaptor and use your braze on FD, it's pretty simple fix.
motobecane69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 10:44 PM   #7
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,614
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
+1, Tube is round is it not?. measure the diameter .
pick the appropriate band on adapter.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-11, 11:50 PM   #8
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Bikes: My War
Posts: 26,667
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Is your other crankset a compact double? I'd put 40/60 odds the XX derailer might shift it OK with a 50/34, worth a shot. Maybe move down to a 48 if it's close but no cigar?

The biggest ring mentioned in sram XX docs is a 45T with the high clamp (or the direct mount, but that probably doesn't apply here), that's pretty close to 50. Dunno if high clamp is a separate version of the FD or just a different clamp or even better (for you) just a different way of setting up the FD.

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 08-28-11 at 08:47 AM.
LesterOfPuppets is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 07:35 AM   #9
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you guys noticed the OP said the frame seat tubing was squared-ish? Have no idea what frame is so clearly he states that he cant put a clamp in that area. I would use compact crank set with the FD that actually he has, it should work just fine. Or re attach a new FD tab using screws or maybe rivets.

Nova cycles have the part u need.

DO you have a picture of the area?? Asking because wonder if you can do what i did years ago in a scott that I adapted for road stuff, similar issue with the seat tube, was round at the bottom then around the clamp area became ovalizes and orversized, an MTB FD worked fine because the clamp was low enough but the road one did not. What I ended up doing was putting the clamp as high as i could then making an extension of the tab that was like 1 inch long using 2 small AL profile pieces, then attaching that to the clamp and then the FD to the extension, it was kind;a weak but is worked. The other thing u can do if you have a friend with a tig/mig weld machine (my original idea but non of my friends have this machine) is to get 2 clamps identical, cut the attachment tab off one and weld that one to the other clamp just to extend it, the tab once welded i shouldnt brake ever in a matter of fat the clamp might crack but if you are careful maybe wont ever. Wonder when problem solvers will come up with a product like this. Hope this idea helps you.

ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 08:06 AM   #10
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for all the replies.

The seat tube is basically square, and my (fragile) understanding is that it's larger than any standard clamp-on, so I can't just throw a normal clamp-on on there. My initial thought was like HillRider's - and this is where it's a little murky. The XX FD that they put on was a kind of custom clamping from what I can tell. There is a related issue that due to this adjustment, there is very little clearance between the clamp and the back tire. So one thought (from the shop) was that the FD might be moved up but unclear how this affects that clearaance issue. I'm new to SRAM stuff but it's compact-ish (would be nice to have option for standard but I can live with a compact).

Sorry I don't have a pic because I dropped it at the shop yesterday. You can see the frame here:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...01&scname=Road

I don't have any welder friends, but that is an interesting idea. In retrospect, for doing Mt Washington, I could live with just a fixed 24 on the front; outside of the first 50 yards there aren't any sections for which you would shift more than a cog or two (for me anyway).
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 09:07 AM   #11
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't know what the conversation was that you had with the shop, but if the same thing happened to me and they didn't tell me they were modifying the frame, I'd be pissed... and I am a pretty forgiving guy, having worked many years in shops and made some stupid mistakes myself.

Modifying a frame is generally saved as a very last resort when a standard setup won't work. If someone comes into a shop and says 'I want my bike to have lower gearing for hill climbs' there are a whole slew of things I would suggest or try first before I get out the hacksaw... especially on a new or new-ish bike.
LarDasse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 02:28 PM   #12
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LD74 - I'm not so happy about it, but I do believe in supporting my LBS(es) and I think we will find a solution. In retrospect, I recall they mentioned that they had used something similar to this configuration for someone touring over the Rockies and I think they got a little too excited that the same would be a good solution for me, even though I thought I had explained it pretty well. I've never owned a bike with a braze-on, so it never occurred to me that this would be an issue.
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 02:29 PM   #13
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cut off the hanger without asking you??!! If they can't replace the hanger they owe you a new frame.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-11, 08:32 PM   #14
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nice frame, darn tube is ovalized, u cant put a clamp in there at all. Look probably u have the markings where he old one was welded right?

Get this part... 3 bucks... rivets are 90 cents now u need the machine that can be found in home depot and fix it your self. U dont lose anything trying.

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...-ON-BLACK.html

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...OP-RIVETS.html

Plan B... there are frame builders over there in your area? weld that with tig is like 5 mins, Two touches and ready to go. Anybody knows? have you asked in the framebuilders section? probably somebody could give you a hand for free.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-11, 02:15 AM   #15
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's aluminium, so welding it is a WOFTAM, because then it needs heat-treating again.

IMO the best bet would be to use a MTB FD with a modified mount so it can shift road rings.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-11, 06:20 AM   #16
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kimmo if tigged he doesn't and wont affect the material, another option is to buy a carbon clamp and make a shim with the shape of tube and rounded outside or something like that. Screws?? rivets??
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-11, 07:00 AM   #17
motobecane69
Banned.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congrats, you are now the new owner of a single speed! lol
motobecane69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-11, 08:15 PM   #18
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I suspect there is a not-too-complicated way that a competent person with a bench grinder or a Dremel can modify a front derailleur clamp to fit your frame. If properly adjusted it will work 100% perfectly, and that is all that matters... the guys at the shop used some bad judgement, but there is no reason to get all worked up over it - people make mistakes. And all that really matters is that you get your front derailleur mounted and working properly, and that you get out and ride.

BTW, They should not charge you for this repair.
LarDasse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-11, 08:20 AM   #19
strock 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you've got three really good suggestions, already. LesterOfPuppets may be right that your SRAM XX will shift a compact road double. The FD would presumably have to be raised a little to accommodate the larger ring. I've never tried the SRAM XX, but I've shifted up to 48t road rings with mountain derailleurs, and I'm guessing that my older model XT would shift 50t without a problem, despite the fact that the cage isn't optimized to go that high. Why not have the LBS throw on a road double, raise the derailleur a bit, and see what happens? Worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work. If that fails, then I'd look into LarDasse74's suggestion. Someone with the right tools and skills ought to be able to fabricate a shim that would allow you to use a round FD clamp on a non-round tube or, failing that, modify the clamp itself. In the meantime, ultraman's idea of posting on the framebuilders forum makes a lot of sense.
__________________
Steve
strock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-11, 10:18 PM   #20
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strock View Post
I think you've got three really good suggestions, already. LesterOfPuppets may be right that your SRAM XX will shift a compact road double. The FD would presumably have to be raised a little to accommodate the larger ring. I've never tried the SRAM XX, but I've shifted up to 48t road rings with mountain derailleurs, and I'm guessing that my older model XT would shift 50t without a problem, despite the fact that the cage isn't optimized to go that high. Why not have the LBS throw on a road double, raise the derailleur a bit, and see what happens? Worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work. If that fails, then I'd look into LarDasse74's suggestion. Someone with the right tools and skills ought to be able to fabricate a shim that would allow you to use a round FD clamp on a non-round tube or, failing that, modify the clamp itself. In the meantime, ultraman's idea of posting on the framebuilders forum makes a lot of sense.
Raising the position of the current mtn FD is what I think they are going to try. I like the idea of fabricating a clamp but I suspect it may be difficult because the square tube is itself larger than a round one, so it might be harder than trimming an existing clamp. I've asked some local builders about welding. The silver lining might be that the e-5 is not free, but a lot less than the components that go on it, so it galls me but it might be final way out.

Thanks all for some intriguing suggestions.
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-11, 05:37 AM   #21
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I posted a message to Specialized's web site and they offered that this (reattaching) could be done by authorized dealers or sent back. So there are some options, it would appear.
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-11, 09:03 AM   #22
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's the only option worth thinking about, IMO.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 08:02 PM   #23
jazzy_cyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Bikes: Cannondale R600
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hopefully happy ending -- dealer is going to order a new frame. I offered to pay some of this as a gesture of good will (although he would have eaten the entire cost if I insisted), so looks good.
I guess the moral is that both parties need to measure twice, cut once.
jazzy_cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 08:42 PM   #24
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Bikes:
Posts: 9,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
sounds like it's going to work out for you.
himespau is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:11 PM.