Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Yet another weird noise, freewheel suspected

    It can only by heard while when pedaling, but it's not there 100% of the time. It's like a clunk-clunk, louder when pushing stronger or going faster, usually more than 1 clunk per crankset rev.

    Shifting has a high chance of triggering it, but it will also occasionally rear its ugly face when I resume pedalling after coasting. Often I can get of rid of it just by coasting and resuming again.

    With the sole exception of the derailers, all of the transmission has been replaced 3 months ago or less, and that includes chain, crankset, and freewheel. FTR the chain is a SRAM PC-830 and the freewheel is a 7-speed DNP Epoch.

    EpochFW.jpg

    I checked play as per Sheldon Brown's instructions and there's more on the new FW than the old one. Tried tightening the thing with a chain tool but it won't budge. I can't remember whether I greased the thread before screwing it in (did the work on a hurry and could've forgot), although I can't see how that would make a difference in this case?

    Does my suspicion sound correct and if so, is there anything I can do?
    Last edited by alms; 09-07-11 at 08:12 AM. Reason: added FW photo and corrected brand

  2. #2
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You won't be able to tighten it onto the hub any more than riding it has already done, and even if you could, it would have zero effect.

    The play comes from the bearings inside the freewheel. If you can't dissemble the freewheel, you can't fix it. In Shimano cassette hubs you can remove shims to fix play.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do you think the play is what's causing the noise?

    BTW after taking a photo of the freewheel I was able to notice finer details. Regardless of what's written on the box, it's actually a DNP Epoch freewheel. I'm going to edit the first post accordingly.

    edit: added photo. There are two different splined profile. The outer one spins with the sprockets, the inner one does not. I'm guessing the latter is used to remove the freewheel while the former gives access to the FW internals?
    Last edited by alms; 09-07-11 at 08:14 AM.

  4. #4
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When it comes to the origin of noises, nobody can tell better than the OP.

    You're the only judge of it, but play in the freewheel bearings could conceivably cause the noise you're describing.

    On the other hand, there are probably half a dozen other thigs it could be too. Did you have the noise before you changed the freewheel, or has it started since?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I can't remember if it started exactly at the same time, but it was not there before. However, the entire rear wheel, chain and bottom bracket were replaced along with the FW. Now I've ruled out the bottom bracket, the chain looks innocuous enough, and if the wheel was responsible I guess the noise would be heard at all times. Am I right in my reasoning?

    BTW I had assumed the old FW was cheap no-good stuff. After the inner spline revelation, I went back, and found under the grime a Shimano MF-HG20. I'm thinking about getting the remover tool and swapping it back to see if the noise goes away.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Ffld Cnty Connecticut
    My Bikes
    Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
    Posts
    15,481
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    My old Suntour Winner 7 Aluminum body freewheels used to "clunk" in certain gears. I assumed it was play with them.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  7. #7
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah, if you consider that if there's slop in the bearings, the outer portion will run slightly eccentric to the inner, and possibly allow a pawl to disengage on the way round. If the outer was perfectly concentric, this wouldn't result in a clunk, but then it also prolly wouldn't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    I can't remember if it started exactly at the same time, but it was not there before. However, the entire rear wheel, chain and bottom bracket were replaced along with the FW. Now I've ruled out the bottom bracket, the chain looks innocuous enough, and if the wheel was responsible I guess the noise would be heard at all times. Am I right in my reasoning?
    How have you ruled out the BB? A new BB can make noise if it isn't installed properly.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
    How have you ruled out the BB? A new BB can make noise if it isn't installed properly.
    I replaced the BB twice in 3 months, first time the original cups and cones was toast. Second time mostly because I had to get a new crankset, and only found a triple (also, an elusive creaking). Before mounting the second one, I started a thread here and eventually contacted the manufacturer to get specific mounting instructions (which is a fun story in itself)

    The current one feels and sounds OK when spinning it without the chain (although TBEH the creaking one did too). If you want me to check something specific, I'm all ears: despite a basic understanding of things mechanic, it's only months since I got serious about bike maintenance.

    Today I got the FW remover and salvaged the HG20 FW. The plan is to remove the Epoch (hope it'll be as easy), and try the Shimano out. If that rids me of that damn noise, the Epoch goes back to the shop and see if I can get a replacement under warranty.

    Next on my list is shortening the chain. I have no idea whether that can make any difference, but I slapped it on as is and there's no point in running a long chain.

    Oh and one last thing, when I overhauled the transmission, I greased the jockey pulleys but didn't replace them. Any chance they can get that noisy?

  9. #9
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The jockey wheels shouldn't make much noise.

    As for what else to check, I think you're going about it the right way... eliminating noise can be a PITA, sometimes you just have to disassemble and reassemble, swap parts out, etc till you find it.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm in the process of replacing the freewheel. After removing the Epoch I did notice the rear wheel emits a light ticking noise when spinning with or without the quick release. With the wheel tilted about 45 degrees sideways, the noise disappears.

    I rechecked the cone adjustment on the wheel and it seems OK to me. I followed instructions from Sheldon Brown's site, so the wheel turns freely and has no play when the QR is on tight, and just a little otherwise.

    Does this mean the hub is toast?

  11. #11
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nah, the ticking is just the balls hitting each other, it's nothing. If you hear that sound on the bike, it prolly means your cones are a bit loose and/or the balls are dry.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That's a relief. Eventually I had to disassemble, clean and re-grease the whole hub. I think the oil that I used on the Epoch FW had a bit of solvent in it, and that leaked through the hub washing away the grease. There couldn't have been much to start with. On reassembly, I used grease liberally as per SB's instructions, but after readjusting the cones, the ticking is still there. Not loud though, so I'm not losing my sleep on it.

    Now, the Shimano HG20 is on (this time I used motor oil), and it sounds nicer than the Epoch, but wobbles just as much. It's still much worse than a friend's MTB that I'm using as a comparison (this bike should have a Shimano 7-spd FW too, maybe another HG20).

    What's the chance that both the freewheels are problematic? The suspect the wheel might be the problem after all is dawning on me...

    Thanks for all the help so far Kimmo, I appreciate it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Chombi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    9,289
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wear on the FW pawl pivots can sometimes cause these clunking noise as the pawl would shift around and fall into position at the lowest point of the FW body pivot hole as force is applied by the pedaling, thus the clunking. Try testing a different (newer, not as worn out, preferably) FW on the bike to confirm if this is the problem.

    Chombi

  14. #14
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    What's the chance that both the freewheels are problematic? The suspect the wheel might be the problem after all is dawning on me...
    It's not that unlikely... I imagine you'd have to pay quite a bit for a quality freewheel, if they're still available. Why are you worried about the wheel? You've had the hub apart and seen the races haven't you?

    If the cups, cones and balls are smooth and the cones are properly adjusted, there's nothing wrong. The ticking is likely to disappear when the wheel's clamped in the frame and the balls are under slight preload. It's just the sound of gravity having its way with the balls, because they don't entirely fill the race.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well it's time for revelations my friends. I took out the bike this morning for my daily run and was impressed by the difference. Now that it's cleaned and oiled the 20yo HG20 sounds like an alien manufact from 400 years in the future compared to the DNP. I'm serious. Every noise it makes is subdued and has a "high tech" character. Shifting is quicker and quieter too.

    The DNP also made a resonating, hollow sound, not unlike a bell, whenever torque was applied in an unsmooth way. The old HG20 is not completely quiet under the same condition, but while riding it can easily fade into the background noise and seemingly tends to go away after a few revs.

    Now, this was just one day (and a windy one), so I plan to keep using it some more to make sure it always stays this way. Since I have trouble telling the sprocket "features" from simple wear. I was going to post a pic but I had trouble getting a single good one, so I made an album. Does it look bad to you?

    http://imgur.com/a/WdqOf

    @ Kimmo, I started doubting the wheel because I had the impression the HG20 had less play on the old wheel. I can't figure out why it would be that way so maybe it's just my imagination?

    Anyway, the races were shiny. I've been told by some LBS guys that isn't good, so isn't that unexpected for a wheel that probably didn't even hit the 1000 km mark yet? I also have a creeping feeling that it's not perfectly true anymore.
    Last edited by alms; 09-09-11 at 07:22 AM. Reason: added link to pics

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bump.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ka0use's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Denver, Freak Hill, Colorado
    My Bikes
    2003 Bianchi Lynx MTB bought new. Her name is Judy.
    Posts
    1,104
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think it is possessed.

    you might contact a shaman and have him/her burn chicken feathers and chant weirrrrrrrrrd incantations
    whilst doing a de-po dance around the bike.

    make sure no other bikes are around- the demon might hop to another bike.

  18. #18
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,828
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    @ Kimmo, I started doubting the wheel because I had the impression the HG20 had less play on the old wheel. I can't figure out why it would be that way so maybe it's just my imagination?

    Anyway, the races were shiny. I've been told by some LBS guys that isn't good, so isn't that unexpected for a wheel that probably didn't even hit the 1000 km mark yet? I also have a creeping feeling that it's not perfectly true anymore.
    The amount of play in a freewheel can't conceivably be affected by which wheel it's mounted on, unless you're also looking at axle play.

    Pff, WTF? Races shouldn't be shiny? What utter bollocks. Stay away from those LBS guys, they're either clueless or yanking your chain.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •