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Old 09-10-11, 08:59 PM   #1
Pistol Peter
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27" to 700 wheel and cassette conversion

I have on old '70's steel frame home built 27" as a spare bike and don't want to throw it away. I would like to fix it up so that my son can join me on some rides. Problem - it's an old 10 speed, and I would like to add a better gearing. Stay with me on this! I am also thinking of updating my roadie from 9 speed veloce to maybe record or similar. How much of the group set would fit the 27" with success? I know I won't be able to use the brake set, but would like to try to use the rest? Do Campy make 36 spoke hubs? Any ideas or tips
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Old 09-10-11, 09:51 PM   #2
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Other than the 4mm extra reach brake issue which you're already aware of, the only other real barrier is the rear triangle width, which is now either 120 or 126mm and needs to be spread to 130mm (from 126, you don't have to actually have to spread the stays, you can simply spring it open and shove the wheel in. This was a common practice in the era when this change was happening, though I still prefer to spread (cold set) the frame to make wheel changes easier.

Campagnolo made 36h hubs for decades, but I believe (subject to correction) that they no longer do, due to the lack of demand. No problem building 32h wheels for the conversion though.
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Old 09-10-11, 11:23 PM   #3
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Couple of additional notes:

1. The bikes of the 70's aren't or overtime have become miss-aligned. Running modern index shifting system requires good alignment, so after cold setting check the derailleur hanger's alignment.

2. I would suggest lacing wheels with a 700c rim. This will provide move tire choices and rim selection, versus trying to lace an old rim onto a new campy hub. To adjust for the short diameter of the 700c wheels use a long reach brake caliper.

3. Front derailleur clamp, if not brazed on, might be to small, as 70's tubing was traditionally smaller then modern tubing.

Best to read this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Enjoy the rides with your son. Riding with my dad 25 years ago is how I got into cycling.

Good luck!
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Old 09-11-11, 04:17 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Other than the 4mm extra reach brake issue which you're already aware of, the only other real barrier is the rear triangle width, which is now either 120 or 126mm and needs to be spread to 130mm (from 126, you don't have to actually have to spread the stays, you can simply spring it open and shove the wheel in. This was a common practice in the era when this change was happening, though I still prefer to spread (cold set) the frame to make wheel changes easier.

Campagnolo made 36h hubs for decades, but I believe (subject to correction) that they no longer do, due to the lack of demand. No problem building 32h wheels for the conversion though.
I reckon that mine is 126 just at a rough measure, but I might take it Mike Turtur and have it cold set anyway.

As velorider says, it would be better to use 700c's to give me some more tyre (aus spelling) choices, and that's another option, might keep that option open for now.

Thanks

PS We're all thinking of you guys over here.
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Old 09-11-11, 04:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by velorider562 View Post
Couple of additional notes:

1. The bikes of the 70's aren't or overtime have become miss-aligned. Running modern index shifting system requires good alignment, so after cold setting check the derailleur hanger's alignment.

2. I would suggest lacing wheels with a 700c rim. This will provide move tire choices and rim selection, versus trying to lace an old rim onto a new campy hub. To adjust for the short diameter of the 700c wheels use a long reach brake caliper.

3. Front derailleur clamp, if not brazed on, might be to small, as 70's tubing was traditionally smaller then modern tubing.

Best to read this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Enjoy the rides with your son. Riding with my dad 25 years ago is how I got into cycling.

Good luck!
Yeah I might get the LBS to check the alignment.

The only thing with going to 700c as sheldon brown states is that the older style give a more comfy ride. Now as my lad is a self confessed MTB and BMX NUT, I think he will appreciate the softer ride, so i'll consider all options carefully before I jump into one?

Now i'm not too sure about the front derailleur clamp braze on type v the other type? so i'll have to research that.

Anywho, thanks for the valuable advice, now at least I have a better idea of my feasible options.
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Old 09-11-11, 04:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by velorider562 View Post
Couple of additional notes:

1. The bikes of the 70's aren't or overtime have become miss-aligned. Running modern index shifting system requires good alignment, so after cold setting check the derailleur hanger's alignment.

2. I would suggest lacing wheels with a 700c rim. This will provide move tire choices and rim selection, versus trying to lace an old rim onto a new campy hub. To adjust for the short diameter of the 700c wheels use a long reach brake caliper.

3. Front derailleur clamp, if not brazed on, might be to small, as 70's tubing was traditionally smaller then modern tubing.

Best to read this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Enjoy the rides with your son. Riding with my dad 25 years ago is how I got into cycling.

Good luck!
Actually I have just read S B's article on derailleur types, and, ........I'm a d...head. I've got it now. Actually i've had it all along, I just forgot where I had put it, my brain that is
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Old 09-11-11, 07:55 AM   #7
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You won't be able to swap in the bottom bracket unless your 27 has Italian threading.
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Old 09-12-11, 01:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pistol Peter View Post
..The only thing with going to 700c as sheldon brown states is that the older style give a more comfy ride. ..
What? Not like Sheldon to make such a silly statement. Can you show where?

Between two reasonably similar wheels, the biggest influence on ride quality is tire pressure. Some 27" rims aren't hooked, which by design can't take as much pressure as hooked rims. So you end up running a wider tire at a lower pressure, which creates more comfort.
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Old 09-12-11, 03:47 AM   #9
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What? Not like Sheldon to make such a silly statement. Can you show where?

Between two reasonably similar wheels, the biggest influence on ride quality is tire pressure. Some 27" rims aren't hooked, which by design can't take as much pressure as hooked rims. So you end up running a wider tire at a lower pressure, which creates more comfort.
I think that's what he meant
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Old 09-12-11, 03:48 AM   #10
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You won't be able to swap in the bottom bracket unless your 27 has Italian threading.
Yes I've got to look into that, I doubt that it has.

I wonder if there is another way around that?
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Old 09-12-11, 04:58 AM   #11
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PS We're all thinking of you guys over here.
Actually, I'm sparing a thought for civil rights and Muslims instead.
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