Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Who makes the most powerful brakes?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Who makes the most powerful brakes?

Old 10-14-11, 02:41 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Sincitycycler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
Posts: 3,218

Bikes: 2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Who makes the most powerful brakes?

I've got a fixie and I just want to add a front brake with maximum bear trap like clamping power. I seem to remember the Mavic SSCs being pretty strong...suggestions?
__________________
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
Sincitycycler is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 03:43 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 87 Posts
What type of brake? disc, caliper, canti, V, U etc
jimc101 is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 04:09 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Matt Gaunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Really?
__________________
Matt
2018 Enigma Excel Pic|| 2010 Kinesis Decade Convert2 Pic || 2008 Kinesis RC2 Pics || 2007 Kinesis Pha5e Pics || 2005 Kinesis RC Pics || 1996 Raleigh Max Pics
Matt Gaunt is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 06:05 AM
  #4  
Lover of Old Chrome Moly
 
Myosmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
If your brake will lock your front wheel, at speed, with a reasonable amount of hand pressure on the lever, there is really no purpose for "maximum bear trap like clamping power". With any decent brakes your wheel is going to lock well before you run out of "clamping power". The big difference in types and quality of brakes is not at lockout, but how smooth and controllable the transition is from lightly feathering the brakes to maximum deceleration. Notice I said "deceleration" not lock out as your maximum braking comes at the point just prior to the wheel breaking traction and sliding. Power sliding is not efficient braking. The precision with which you can apply pressure to the brake pads and the return feel you get determines how accurately you can keep a bike at maximum braking without locking up the wheels.
Myosmith is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 07:52 AM
  #5  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,984

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4297 Post(s)
Liked 2,929 Times in 1,589 Posts
Originally Posted by Myosmith
If your brake will lock your front wheel, at speed, with a reasonable amount of hand pressure on the lever, there is really no purpose for "maximum bear trap like clamping power". With any decent brakes your wheel is going to lock well before you run out of "clamping power".
It's all but impossible to lock a front wheel with your brakes - it just doesn't happen unless maybe you're on ice.

OP has a fixie... most likely any sidepull caliper will give him plenty of stopping power... might need a long reach version if he has fenders and big tires.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 08:09 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,920

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3344 Post(s)
Liked 1,054 Times in 634 Posts
The Bengal discs on my Terratrike will lock the wheels. In an emergency locking the wheels on a trike wont cause much problems. Lock the front wheel on a bike is going to bring road rash. BTW LWB bents can stand far more brakinng action of the front wheel than a DF, because of the load shift, and the fact it is almost impossible to fly over the handlebars.
rydabent is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 08:24 AM
  #7  
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,251

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 149 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6133 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,310 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
It's all but impossible to lock a front wheel with your brakes - it just doesn't happen unless maybe you're on ice.
Not really. It's more difficult to lock the front wheel on dry pavement but not impossible. Change the surface even a little and locking the front wheel becomes much easier. Gravel, rocks, marbles, paint, etc. on pavement reduce the friction and make locking up the front wheel easier. Changing the body position of the rider has a huge influence on locking the front wheel. An endo is, by definition, a front wheel lock. The rider pivots around the hub because that's the front wheel is locked.

There are very few brakes that aren't capable of causing pitchover. And the ones that can are very old. Most all of the 'power' of braking comes from technique, not from the mechanical parts of the bike.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 08:28 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7148 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 92 Posts
Brembo:

mconlonx is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 09:55 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Flying Merkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Costa Mesa CA
Posts: 2,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Brakes do not stop your bike. Brakes stop the wheel from rotating. Tires stop bikes. If you have a narrow tire on the front, that's what determines the stopping power. Any decent road caliper will be sufficient.
Flying Merkel is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:10 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,505

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times in 1,320 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
It's all but impossible to lock a front wheel with your brakes - it just doesn't happen unless maybe you're on ice.
I have absolutely no problem getting enough brake force to lift the rear wheel off the ground if I want to. Naturally this isn't desirable, but that represents the absolute maximum possible stopping power.

Any decent brake, with decent shoes and clean rims should be able to do this. Usually when they can't it's because of glazed brake shoes, though brake rigidity and brake arm length are also factors.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:16 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
For a specific recommendation, any model Shimano double pivot caliper brake will provide all the stopping power you can possibly use. BTW, is your front rim aluminum or steel? If it's steel, that's the first thing you should change.
HillRider is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:17 AM
  #12  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
It Would have to bolt on thru the fork crown and thus limited to a road bike caliper.
I would look at a dual pivot type , rather than a single pivot.

now if you fit a very strong fork, on the bike, and a powerful disc brake on front..
you get something so strong that it turns the rider into a ballistic projectile
to be flung to the ground, as all the momentum is transferred to the Weakest Link.

I've got a fixie and I just want to add a front brake
with maximum bear trap like clamping power.

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-14-11 at 10:21 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:45 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,505

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times in 1,320 Posts
Maybe you should hold off a little while.

https://www.gizmag.com/wireless-braki...m_medium=email
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:52 AM
  #14  
Rolling along
 
fas2c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE Alabama
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SCOTT PEDERSEN SUNTOUR SE from Sheldon Brown: https://sheldonbrown.com/tandem-brakes.html
Self-Energizing Cantilevers

Because of the myth that conventional cantilevers aren't strong enough for tandem use, some people favor Self-Energizing cantilevers. These don't have a simple pivot, instead, each arm moves on a steep multi-start screw thread, so that as the shoe approaches the rim it also moves forward. When it rubs on the moving rim, the forward pull tends to increase the inward pressure, providing a "positive feedback."
This design can apply greater braking force for less finger force than a conventional cantilever, but it is difficult to modulate it. The original Scott Pedersen SE brakes were available either for front or rear use (opposite direction threadings), but when Sun Tour bought the design, their legal department vetoed the front version, so only the rear model was made by Sun Tour. I advise against the use of Self Energizing brakes, because they make it too easy to lock up the wheel.


Self-energizing Brakes https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#self

Self-energizing brakes use some of the braking force to provide a "power assist" to the brakes. The best-known self-energizing brake is the Scott-Peterson (Sun Tour)cantilever, which has a steep, helical thread as its pivot, so that the forward force exerted by the rim against the pads helps cause the pads to press harder than they would from hand effort alone. Self-energizing brakes are quite controversial, because they can have a non-linear response, which may lead to wheel lock-up.

Last edited by fas2c; 10-14-11 at 10:53 AM. Reason: adding content
fas2c is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 11:11 AM
  #15  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,984

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4297 Post(s)
Liked 2,929 Times in 1,589 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I have absolutely no problem getting enough brake force to lift the rear wheel off the ground if I want to. Naturally this isn't desirable, but that represents the absolute maximum possible stopping power.
All right... I was thinking of skidding the front tire, not doing a partial endo. So I amend my statement to say "it's all but impossible to SKID the front wheel unless you're on ice or something." Which is what I understood Myosmith to be talking about.


There has been a lot of discussion of this in the commuting and fixed gear forums because some jurisdictions have a statement in their bike rules that "A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement."

Now that's obviously a stupid law written by somebody who doesn't understand bicycles or the physics of braking, but since there's virtually no way anyone could meet this requirement with a front brake only (as common with fixies) it has sometimes been interpreted (by fixie haters) to mean a bike must have a rear brake.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 11:23 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes technically those who are saying that when you endo you are producing the maximum braking force possible are incorrect. You could still brake harder if you shifted your weight further back. If you drop your butt behind the seat like on a mountainbike, you could probably brake even harder without an endover. At some point you will lose front wheel traction. That is the true maximum braking force possible.
Dan The Man is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 11:51 AM
  #17  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
sometimes been interpreted (by fixie haters) to mean a bike must have a rear brake.
or by people who think bikes should have two brakes.
EFisch4546 is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 12:30 PM
  #18  
Wookie Jesus inspires me.
 
Puget Pounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Between different dual pivot calipers, there shouldn't be a huge difference if you are using good pads and have prepped it well. Tektros work fine for most people.
Puget Pounder is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 04:09 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
skilsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Cannondale t1, Koga-Miyata World Traveller

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Myosmith
If your brake will lock your front wheel....
I have found that there is often blood in front of the bike after locking the front wheel.
skilsaw is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 05:56 PM
  #20  
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,954
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 75 Posts
Originally Posted by Flying Merkel
Brakes do not stop your bike. Brakes stop the wheel from rotating. Tires stop bikes. If you have a narrow tire on the front, that's what determines the stopping power.
Uhh... what?
FastJake is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:46 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Sincitycycler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
Posts: 3,218

Bikes: 2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Dual pivot - side-pull
__________________
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
Sincitycycler is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:47 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Sincitycycler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Gosh honey, you pass more like Tony Rominger..."
Posts: 3,218

Bikes: 2005 Scott CR1 Pro - 1992 Panasonix Fixed Conversion 60tx20t

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I have absolutely no problem getting enough brake force to lift the rear wheel off the ground if I want to. Naturally this isn't desirable, but that represents the absolute maximum possible stopping power.

Any decent brake, with decent shoes and clean rims should be able to do this. Usually when they can't it's because of glazed brake shoes, though brake rigidity and brake arm length are also factors.
brake rigidity Yes! Which brake sidepull dual pivot has the most rigidity??
__________________
"How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"
Sincitycycler is offline  
Old 10-14-11, 10:50 PM
  #23  
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,898

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26212 Post(s)
Liked 10,179 Times in 7,062 Posts
Originally Posted by skilsaw
I have found that there is often blood in front of the bike after locking the front wheel.
And from what little I can recall, some associated pain.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 10-15-11, 07:33 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times in 741 Posts
Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
brake rigidity Yes! Which brake sidepull dual pivot has the most rigidity??
Any decent model (for Shimano that's Sora and up) will be plenty rigid and powerful. Teltros are fine as are anything Campy makes if cost isn't an issue.

What's with your quest for extremes?
HillRider is offline  
Old 10-15-11, 08:46 AM
  #25  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
Which brake sidepull dual pivot has the most rigidity??
the most expensive one, until the 'make it lighter' factor reduces the rigidity.
fietsbob is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.