Is this a cup and cone hub?
06-17-15, 08:01 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Is this a cup and cone hub?
I have an unlabeled Formula hub. I want to open up the hub on the front wheel so I can grease the bearings.
I have the Park Tool cone wrenches and a spanner. However, for the life of me, I cannot get the damn lock nut to move.
This is a front wheel, I have the cone wrench on the bottom part with the wrench flats, and I am turning the top, lock nut counterclockwise. Nothing moves. I actually ended up denting my Park Tool cone wrench a bit.
Does this hub look like it's designed to be serviceable or what?
PS - this hub was not designed to be taken apart with allen keys ... the hole through which the skewer goes is not hexagonal.
I have the Park Tool cone wrenches and a spanner. However, for the life of me, I cannot get the damn lock nut to move.
This is a front wheel, I have the cone wrench on the bottom part with the wrench flats, and I am turning the top, lock nut counterclockwise. Nothing moves. I actually ended up denting my Park Tool cone wrench a bit.
Does this hub look like it's designed to be serviceable or what?
PS - this hub was not designed to be taken apart with allen keys ... the hole through which the skewer goes is not hexagonal.
Last edited by Deontologist; 06-17-15 at 08:09 PM.
06-17-15, 08:11 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,704
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5777 Post(s)
Liked 2,575 Times
in
1,426 Posts
It has the looks of a cup/cone hub, but may not be. But it should be serviceable.
When you separate the locknut and "cone" and back them off, you'll either find that it's a straightforward cup/cone design. Or the "cone" isn't one but instead is a carrier for the inner race of a cartridge bearing.
Either way, you've little to lose by starting the process and seeing where it takes you.
BTW if the hub is symmetrical with a similar arrangement use two box wrenches or a box wrench and a vise to pull the locknuts away from each other. Whichever side lets go first is the side you'll work from.
When you separate the locknut and "cone" and back them off, you'll either find that it's a straightforward cup/cone design. Or the "cone" isn't one but instead is a carrier for the inner race of a cartridge bearing.
Either way, you've little to lose by starting the process and seeing where it takes you.
BTW if the hub is symmetrical with a similar arrangement use two box wrenches or a box wrench and a vise to pull the locknuts away from each other. Whichever side lets go first is the side you'll work from.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
06-17-15, 08:37 PM
#3
Really Old Senior Member
06-17-15, 08:38 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Well ... I don't think it's a cup/cone hub anymore. The specs for the bike says that the hubs are "dust contact sealed ball bearings." Does that translate to cartridge bearings?
Also the vise idea is a good one. I'll have to use the local co-op's vise ... and their Park Tools. Don't need to be tearing up my Park Tools the first day I get them!
Also the vise idea is a good one. I'll have to use the local co-op's vise ... and their Park Tools. Don't need to be tearing up my Park Tools the first day I get them!
06-18-15, 05:16 AM
#5
bike whisperer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,545
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
It sure looks like one. But your photo doesn't show the dustcap... If it was a cartridge bearing hub I'd be surprised to see the two sizes of flats, and that part would usually be aluminium. As for the locknut, it looks very much like the thick ugly ones you find on cheap loose-ball hubs that are knurled on both sides, and yeah - they can be pretty tough to crack. The two-wrench solution is a good one. If you don't have a second 17mm or a vise, an adjustable wrench works fine if you know how to use it.
The best way to crack hub locknuts (and cassette or disc rotor lockrings) is to have the wheel on the ground against your legs with your tools at 3 and 9 o'clock and after ensuring your tools are properly engaged and aligned, a quick, precise shove almost always does it. I'd be surprised if you'd damage a quality cone wrench with a good enough technique.
Another way that can work is arranging your tools nearly together so you can squeeze them together like pliers, but this is more likely to involve misalignment and mashed tools and parts.
The best way to crack hub locknuts (and cassette or disc rotor lockrings) is to have the wheel on the ground against your legs with your tools at 3 and 9 o'clock and after ensuring your tools are properly engaged and aligned, a quick, precise shove almost always does it. I'd be surprised if you'd damage a quality cone wrench with a good enough technique.
Another way that can work is arranging your tools nearly together so you can squeeze them together like pliers, but this is more likely to involve misalignment and mashed tools and parts.
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
06-18-15, 06:32 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Not necessarily. Loose ball bearing hubs can be "sealed" by a dust cover. I suspect that's what you have.
06-18-15, 06:34 AM
#7
bike whisperer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,545
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
I like to use the pair of 17s to finish almost any hub adjustment; on anything above BSO quality that doesn't have the rare old-school slotted axle with tabbed washers, there's usually quite a large window between tight enough to stay put and too tight to be screwed along as a pair from the back.
I do one side up on the tighter side of that window, and the other gets done up snug enough to stay put while there's a bit of a rattle, then I use the 17s to gradually tighten until the rattle goes away nearly or completely, depending on QR axle or not. This eliminates the trial and error caused by the cone moving when the locknut is tightened (even if you stop it turning, it shifts on the threads), substituting it for the much easier proposition of periodically stopping to wiggle the axle. If I go too far, I simply undo it a tad with a couple of cone wrenches.
I do one side up on the tighter side of that window, and the other gets done up snug enough to stay put while there's a bit of a rattle, then I use the 17s to gradually tighten until the rattle goes away nearly or completely, depending on QR axle or not. This eliminates the trial and error caused by the cone moving when the locknut is tightened (even if you stop it turning, it shifts on the threads), substituting it for the much easier proposition of periodically stopping to wiggle the axle. If I go too far, I simply undo it a tad with a couple of cone wrenches.
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
06-18-15, 06:57 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The best way to crack hub locknuts (and cassette or disc rotor lockrings) is to have the wheel on the ground against your legs with your tools at 3 and 9 o'clock and after ensuring your tools are properly engaged and aligned, a quick, precise shove almost always does it. I'd be surprised if you'd damage a quality cone wrench with a good enough technique.
06-18-15, 08:34 AM
#9
Constant tinkerer
I'm 99.9% sure that's a loose ball bearing hub.
06-18-15, 08:37 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,704
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5777 Post(s)
Liked 2,575 Times
in
1,426 Posts
Ah! That's the spirit.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
06-18-15, 12:05 PM
#11
Really Old Senior Member
I wouldn't bother using CONE Wrenches.
Why risk damaging them when a couple box end wrenches should be more than adequate?
Why risk damaging them when a couple box end wrenches should be more than adequate?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
dchsueh
Bicycle Mechanics
16
07-21-12 11:21 PM
