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  1. #1
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    Sturmey-Archer Cable Pull

    Greetings everyone,

    I'm working on a future (winter) project using a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub and I don't have one yet but purchase a wheel after the project gets rolling more. I need to know two things that aren't readily available.

    1. The length of cable required to shift the hub from:
    a. gear 3 to gear 2
    b. and from gear 2 to gear 1

    2. The force required to keep the hub in the lowest gear (in ounces?)

    I believe that the lowest gear requires the longest cable pull, if I'm wrong just let me know. Imperial or metric measurements are welcome. Any current Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub is welcome (S-RF3, S3X, ab, etc.). Information on S-A five speed hubs are welcome too.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    I can check out the cable pull question for you and get back to you later this morning with that, but I don't have the means to accurately measure for your force question.
    I could rig a fisherman's scale to try it with, but I'm not sure how accurate it will be.

  3. #3
    tcs
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    S-A AW series of hubs:
    Gear 1 to 2: 7.4mm
    Gear 2 to 3: 11.2mm

    Another thought: Gear 2 must be aligned. Gear 1 happens when the cable is taut. Gear 3 happens when the cable is slack.

    Of the current production, the RS-R*3 series, the S3X hubs and the CS-R*3 series Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs have different cable pulls than the AW series hubs.

    HTH
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

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    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    S-A was founded in 1909.
    1902.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  5. #5
    Senior Member oldroads's Avatar
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    Length depends on the bike’s frame, plus where you put the fulcrum sleeve.
    Why not use a standard S/A shifter?
    Vinny - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles - OldRoads.com
    BUY/SELL forum (no fees) - Price Guides - 19 years of archives

  6. #6
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    S-A AW series of hubs:
    Gear 1 to 2: 7.4mm
    Gear 2 to 3: 11.2mm

    Another thought: Gear 2 must be aligned. Gear 1 happens when the cable is taut. Gear 3 happens when the cable is slack.

    Of the current production, the RS-R*3 series, the S3X hubs and the CS-R*3 series Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs have different cable pulls than the AW series hubs.

    HTH
    I hope that's not the case. I have a rotary 3 speed still in the box that came with a standard 3 speed shifter.
    One thing to note however is the rotary hub is low normal as opposed to the high normal of traditional Sturmey hubs.
    EDIT: I just discovered I was mistaken about the low normal bit. I surmised that from playing with the hub without the rotary mechanism attached.
    Checking further, I discovered that the spring return is housed in the rotary mechanism, and it is high normal when set up.
    EDIT AGAIN: I just placed a call to UBS to enquire about the rotary shifter. It turns out it is indeed a dedicated shifter, and not interchangeable with the classic SA 3 speed.
    Learning lots of stuff today.

  7. #7
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    I just checked a 3 speed trigger shifter on my cable pull measuring tool, and I get 8.6mm for 1 to 2 and 15mm for 2 to 3.
    I didn't even try my fisherman's scale on the hub because it has one lb increments very close together. I doubt I could get any useful info for you.
    EDIT: See above, the shifter I measured was for the rotary hub, clearly different from the classic shifter as referenced by tcs above.

  8. #8
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
    EDIT: See above, the shifter I measured was for the rotary hub, clearly different from the classic shifter as referenced by tcs above.
    Yeah, your C30 (rotary gear select) hub probably came with the DLC34 push-push shifter and should say "C30" above the gear indication window. The quite similar DLS30 push-push shifter for the S30 (traditional pull chain gear select) hubs says "S30" above the gear indication window.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  9. #9
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Yeah, your C30 (rotary gear select) hub probably came with the DLC34 push-push shifter and should say "C30" above the gear indication window. The quite similar DLS30 push-push shifter for the S30 (traditional pull chain gear select) hubs says "S30" above the gear indication window.
    You are correct, it does say C30. I confused myself by trying to compare shifters on Sturmey Archer's web site. I should know better than that by now, because they are notoriously slow about updating things like that.

  10. #10
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    As long as the current hubs are not vastly different I can do fine tuning later. So I guess we're looking at a little under an inch of travel, and less than 2 pounds required to shift.

    The reason I need to know this is so I can buy the correct servo for the task (I hope you can see where I'm going with this). It's pretty easy to get a servo to pull ~1 inch of cable at 32 inch pounds (Where A is the angle of servo; L is the length of cable to some center point; length of cable pulled = sqrt([sin(A)^2]+[(L-cos(A))^2]). Now I think I'll be free to get the fastest servo for the job.

  11. #11
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallstreetjazz View Post
    As long as the current hubs are not vastly different I can do fine tuning later. So I guess we're looking at a little under an inch of travel, and less than 2 pounds required to shift.

    The reason I need to know this is so I can buy the correct servo for the task (I hope you can see where I'm going with this). It's pretty easy to get a servo to pull ~1 inch of cable at 32 inch pounds (Where A is the angle of servo; L is the length of cable to some center point; length of cable pulled = sqrt([sin(A)^2]+[(L-cos(A))^2]). Now I think I'll be free to get the fastest servo for the job.
    Well, fill us in on the result. This is interesting.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post

    Of the current production, the RS-R*3 series, the S3X hubs and the CS-R*3 series Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs have different cable pulls than the AW series hubs.

    HTH
    Yes, this is a necrobump. But I wanted to thank you for this information. SA's website implies as much but doesn't come out and say it. I spent a couple hours trying to get a trigger to work with an S3X hub to find that it is possible....but adjustment is beyond finicky.

    Guess I'll be dropping the coin to get the right shifter.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, get the right shifter for sure! I destroyed the planet pinions and one of the locking balls in my X-RD5 by using the shifter meant for the X-RD5(W), which has a slightly shorter cable pull.

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