forgewithinfire

Ok so I have a 2008 Surly Crosscheck and nothing I have done has eliminated the piercing squeal in the front brake. I have done EVERYTHING, even a fork-crown cable-stop. Hell the bicycle shop near me that fits people for custom bicycles (at upward of $6k) pretty much said "I give up." Yep, three years of trying and it really detracts from the riding experience.
So my question is this; Since it is the flex in the fork when brake pressure is applied causing resonance in the brake cable and thus causing the squeal (yes an engineering student tested that for me), would a carbon fork be better/stiffer? I have never had one on a bicycle. Of course I know aluminum would certainly be stiffer, but I figure the lighter the better. Thanks guys!

Leebo

My crosscheck works great, what kind of brakes are you using.? I have had good luck with canti's.

AEO

how about some mini-Vs? They work well enough for the front with regular road brake levers.

other not as common solutions:
use long arm cantis, like tektro CR720
use shorter road caliper pads
use less grippy brake pad

Deathmobile

If you're still running the Oryx that came with the bike, consider swapping them for something else. I switched to Tektro CR720s and immediately lost the brake squeal/chatter of the Oryx. Cheaper than a new fork, and I know I'm not the only one who's fixed that problem with the CR720s.

forgewithinfire

I have the stock Canti brakes, certainly the bane of my existence, hate those things. I have been thinking about v-brakes but I thought I would have to change levers. Can you send me a link to mini-v's that work with road levers? Still, a stiff fork will help either way.

forgewithinfire

I suppose I could try the Tektro CR720, is it the increased leverage that stoppes the squeal?

pdlamb

Have you tried changing to a different brake pad?

In all honesty, I've learned to love an occasional squeal, especially when riding on a MUP. Scares the dogs and their pedestrians from 15 yards away!

forgewithinfire

i have tried 4 brands of pads... and this isn't an occasional squeal, it's pretty constant. It's gotten to the point where it bugs me so much I don't even want to ride it. A squeal every so often if fine, but this is terrible.

AEO

it says it only works with linear levers, but there are plenty of people who use mini-V with road levers.
https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...s&sort=2&fid=3

there's also the V-drop lever if you want standard sized V-brakes.
https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...r&sort=1&fid=3

Metaluna

I was never able to get rid of the piercing shriek for long on my (now defunct) Cross Check. I tried all sorts of high and mid-range cantis, v-brakes, etc, including Pauls. Finally I got sick of the constant re-toeing and other fiddling and went to a carbon disc fork. I don't know if my problem was the fork, the rim or something else, but the experience has kind of soured me on non-caliper rim brakes.

forgewithinfire

So the carbon disk fork and brakes worked well for you? I love my bike, but I think I may climb a clocktower and take out a small town if the squeal doesn't stop. I'm wiling to go disk, special levers and for if need be

forgewithinfire

Oh and what brand/model brakes/fork did you get?

Metaluna

The disc has worked pretty well, though honestly I've never quite experienced the monster stopping power that others have reported. Getting the pad clearance close but not too close, and with the right proportion between the inner and outer pad is quite tricky, but once they're dialed in they seem to be less troublesome. They will still squeal under very heavy braking, especially if wet, but not in normal use.

Frankly, nothing has worked as well for me over the years as dual-pivot calipers, but that's not an option on the Cross Check.

forgewithinfire

Cool

Metaluna

The fork is a Nashbar 700c cross fork (which looks an awful lot like a rebadged Winwood Muddy to my eyes). The disc brake is an Avid BB7 with Tektro long-pull drop levers and barend shifters. If you have road brake levers or brifters, you can get the BB7 Road version.

You will need a new front wheel as well. It's not a cheap conversion.

DCB0

Do you still have the cable hange mounted at the headset? I have heard that switching to a fork-crown-mounted cable stop for the front brake can stop squeal.

FWIW, I had persisten squealing and violent suddering on my touring bike with a super-ligh aluminum fork, and I switched to V brakes with a travel agent and the squealing and suddering have completely gone away.

forgewithinfire

I did try the fork-crown mounted cable-stop. I will try the v-brakes and special lever w/ the travel agent built in. Thats not too expensive to try, but the damn thing is going on craigslist if that doesn't do it because the disk brake option is too expensive. If need be, I will just go buy a mountain bike from treck or one of the other big companies... If I ever see canti brakes again in my life it will be too soon.

Stealthammer

Just out of curiosity, are you toeing in the front of each pad slightly (.5-1.0mm)? Also, have you tried Koolstop Duals or Triple pads or buffing the braking surface slightly with 400-600 grit sandpaper? Both seem to reduce the harmonic vibration that often causes the squealing. Stamped steel cable hangers also flex a lot more that aluminun ones so that might help as well. This seems to be related to you specific bike setup since others with the same basic configuration report no issues.

forgewithinfire

I have done all of the above

AEO

the vibration and squealing occurs because the fork flexes, which causes the brake cable to be pulled tighter. This in turn causes the brakes to grab harder until the pads slip and it all repeats.

The crown cable mount reduces the amount of cable that can be pulled.
Different pads can reduce or increase the grip of the brakes themselves.
Toeing in reduces grip.
Smaller pads reduce grip

But Some canti setups just don't work, no matter how much money or tuning is thrown at it.
Personally, if the good cantis and tuning don't work, then I just sell the bike.

DCB0

Bummer. I rmember when I fist built a bike for myself in the mid nineties with Magura hydaulic rim brakes, and gaddamn the front brakes on that thing squealed like an air raid siren! I was hesitant to use the front brakes and my riding suffered. Eventually my problem went away (just had to break in, I suppose), but I am sad to hear yours has not. I wish you the best of luck.

Just so you know, the difference when I swapped from cantis to Vs was night and day... it went from scary shuddering under hard braking to smooth, quiet, powerful brakes. I reccomend you clean your rims with rubbing alcohol and a rag before you ride with the new brakes to give yourself a fresh start. Maybe even give them a light scuff with fine sandpaper before you begin.

forgewithinfire

I think I'm going to try mini-v brakes. They are inexpensive and I don't need to change levers or do much cable work. I already have a brake bridge (does help a BIT as it is) so the combo might do the trick. Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it!

Spld cyclist

Have you tried using a brake booster? (i.e. one of those ugly upside down horseshoe things that clamp onto the canti pivots). That helped reduce the squeal a lot on my Bianchi Volpe with cantilever brakes. Braking power also increased a lot.

Jim

forgewithinfire

By brake bridge I meant brake booster. So yes, and it's from Paul so it's a nice heavy duty, stiff booster.

fietsbob

TRP In-place adjust pads , are a plain post type that can be toed in.
toe in is actually the trailing edge of the brake shoe.

while you are carbonizing the fork, go for the TRP EuroX brakes
also in Carbon fiber.

Carbon, get a good fork which looks really beefy, Empella, Ridley , pro stuff,
rather than Nashbar, etc.

(no I have neither, did get some CF Spooky cantilevers , [company RIP]
and in a test ride the squealing stopped , with them on a steel fork

on my '90 Pinarello CX. plan on the TRP brake pads next,
so I can adopt some Kool Stop Dura inserts , next..