wheel lacing/weight question
01-23-12, 02:01 PM
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wheel lacing/weight question
i have a quick question to appease my curiosity as i dont feel like doing a ton of spocalc stuff. just wondering if a 32 hole 2 cross or a 28 hoe 3 cross would be lighter for the same parts (different drilling aside).
Yeah, I know i could do this on the DT spoke calc. but i dont know if i 100% trust its weights, especially for something so trivial as this. also, some many facturers dont change rim weight per different drillings. so if you have some experience or an opinion i love to hear it. thanks
Yeah, I know i could do this on the DT spoke calc. but i dont know if i 100% trust its weights, especially for something so trivial as this. also, some many facturers dont change rim weight per different drillings. so if you have some experience or an opinion i love to hear it. thanks
01-23-12, 02:08 PM
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Spoke length per same gauge...tells the story...+/- weight of 4 spokes.
=8-)
=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
01-23-12, 02:14 PM
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Calculated Spoke Length * Total Number of Spokes = Gross Length of Spokes Combined
Do it for both wheels...assuming same gauge...should give a two comparative numbers.
It can be assumed that if same gauge and brand - the difference will tell you which will be lighter. Just a difference though - not a grams number.
=8-)
Do it for both wheels...assuming same gauge...should give a two comparative numbers.
It can be assumed that if same gauge and brand - the difference will tell you which will be lighter. Just a difference though - not a grams number.
=8-)
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Disclaimer:
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5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
01-23-12, 02:24 PM
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that was my inclination, but i know drilling the rim more reduces weight etc etc.
01-23-12, 03:06 PM
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01-23-12, 03:11 PM
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Remove More Rim = Add More Nipples
Remove More Nipples = Add More Rim
=8-)
Remove More Nipples = Add More Rim
=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
01-23-12, 04:12 PM
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difference in mass of hub 28-32 hole
difference in mass of rim 28-32 hole
difference in mass of 28 longer spokes to 32 shorter spokes
difference in mass of 4 nipples
There... easy calc.
01-23-12, 04:14 PM
#9
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The weight of the extra nipples will more than make up for the weight removed by drilling. Just look at the volume of the material involved.
So it comes down to the 28's will be lighter for a few reasons.
It'll use less spokes but they would be a little longer due to using 3x. But the slight length difference won't make up for the fewer spokes. So over all the spoke weight for the 28 will be less.
4 less nipples.
But that's countered by a 4 holes worth of aluminium and the eyelets if the rim uses them. The fact that there's 4 less eyelets more than makes up for the small amount of alloy that replaces them. So the 28 hole rim would actually be a gram or two lighter as well. If neither rim uses eyelets then the 32 would be a gram or so lighter.
Overall the 28 is obviously lighter. No need for spocalc or anything other than simply thinking about it. How much less would depend on the factors.
All in all though this is overly OCD.
So it comes down to the 28's will be lighter for a few reasons.
It'll use less spokes but they would be a little longer due to using 3x. But the slight length difference won't make up for the fewer spokes. So over all the spoke weight for the 28 will be less.
4 less nipples.
But that's countered by a 4 holes worth of aluminium and the eyelets if the rim uses them. The fact that there's 4 less eyelets more than makes up for the small amount of alloy that replaces them. So the 28 hole rim would actually be a gram or two lighter as well. If neither rim uses eyelets then the 32 would be a gram or so lighter.
Overall the 28 is obviously lighter. No need for spocalc or anything other than simply thinking about it. How much less would depend on the factors.
All in all though this is overly OCD.
01-23-12, 04:14 PM
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Not quite, you drill out aluminum and replace it with a steel ferrule or eyelet (on some rims) plus the weight of an extra spoke plus the weight of a nipple. Plain and simple, same rim with fewer spokes = lighter wheels.
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01-23-12, 05:18 PM
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wheels are really no different from bridges.
if you use a weak bridge, you will have to use a lot of pillars.
if you use a strong bridge, you can use less pillars.
if you use a weak bridge with few pillars, your bridge will be frail.
if you use a weak bridge, you will have to use a lot of pillars.
if you use a strong bridge, you can use less pillars.
if you use a weak bridge with few pillars, your bridge will be frail.
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01-24-12, 12:12 AM
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im not concerned about this for weight weenie issues, it was something that has been making me think a lot the past 2 days. in all reality ill probably do 32 hole 2 cross because i weigh 136 lbs and its for race wheels. notwithstanding, i have just been curious about this. my brain has allowed me to reason this on both sides of the argument an i got myself in a mess.
as i said before, im sure the results of such an equation would be a few nominal grams. im "upgrading" from a high mod carbon frame to a caad10 as we speak- the weight, in reality, is a non issue. its one of those things that id like a definitive answer to and i cant satisfy that because i cant afford all the parts required for the experiment to actually weigh them. has anyone actually done measurements of this before? id imagine, if nothing else, drilling out the hubs a few more times makes it lighter...
as i said before, im sure the results of such an equation would be a few nominal grams. im "upgrading" from a high mod carbon frame to a caad10 as we speak- the weight, in reality, is a non issue. its one of those things that id like a definitive answer to and i cant satisfy that because i cant afford all the parts required for the experiment to actually weigh them. has anyone actually done measurements of this before? id imagine, if nothing else, drilling out the hubs a few more times makes it lighter...
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