Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    What's with the washers on this cone. See photo

    I noticed one of the cones in my 'collection' has these 2 loose washers on it.

    What purpose?


    Cone copy.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    21,015
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Need more info, but it looks like a single piece with the two split rings in a groove. This is a crapshoot guess based on that.

    That's a common arrangement to form a spring clip to hold an outer part that would slip over the cone. The split rings compress as the outer part is fitted, then expand into a mating groove to trap it in place.

    For hub cones, it's possible that the mating part is some sort of dust cover or a faring like Campy used some years back.
    Last edited by FBinNY; 02-11-12 at 09:31 PM.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
    Posts
    2,227
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have no idea what the answer is but its so weird that you asked that question. Just last saturday, someone came up to the shop boss at the bike coop that I work at and asked that same exact question about their cones. No one knew then so I'm really curious now.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,957
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Those are Shimano's old seal design. They later switched to rubber lip seals. I think there was some overlap where these were used on low-end stuff while rubber seals were used on better hubs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    4,015
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yup. Just crude seals.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1 on the seals. Those are plastic. There is nothing to retain around their groove. It's just a groove cut into a one-piece cone.

  7. #7
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    4,203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Need more info, but it looks like a single piece with the two split rings in a groove. This is a crapshoot guess based on that.

    That's a common arrangement to form a spring clip to hold an outer part that would slip over the cone. The split rings compress as the outer part is fitted, then expand into a mating groove to trap it in place.

    For hub cones, it's possible that the mating part is some sort of dust cover or a faring like Campy used some years back.
    Good guess! Some wheels come with rubber seals that are clipped in place by sliding them over those c-rings. The rings seat in a groove in the seal to keep them in place.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    Good guess! Some wheels come with rubber seals that are clipped in place by sliding them over those c-rings. The rings seat in a groove in the seal to keep them in place.
    Those are plastic rings. They don't retain anything. They ride inside the inner diameter of a hub mounted stamped sheet steel dust cover, which is flanged to have a cylindrical inner surface which fits around the cone where the rings are.

  9. #9
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Camp Hill, PA
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here check my signature.
    Posts
    20,157
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yes I agree it is a seal design, some of you may remember something similar on the bolt of your M16/M4 in boot camp at Paris Island. Also something similar is used in engine piston rings

    OH BTW move the open portion of the rings away from each other atleast 1/4 of the way around the cone
    Last edited by Bianchigirll; 02-13-12 at 09:58 AM.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  10. #10
    Senior Member MNBikeCommuter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    My Bikes
    Cannondale '92 T600 '95 H600 '01 RT1000
    Posts
    532
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    Those are Shimano's old seal design. They later switched to rubber lip seals. I think there was some overlap where these were used on low-end stuff while rubber seals were used on better hubs.
    For a rough time frame, my '92 Cannondale touring bike came with Exage 400 hubs with this design. My '95 hybrid came with Alivio hubs with rubber seals. I couldn't keep the Exage hub innards clean for anything. The Alivios went through several winters of Minnesota sand and salt, and the grease looked factory fresh when I finally tore into them.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like those little plastic split-rings are sort of useless.

    Thanks for the info!

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raleigh71 View Post
    Sounds like those little plastic split-rings are sort of useless.

    Thanks for the info!
    They keep grit out of the hub. The fit between cone and dust cover may not be close enough without them even if you use a lot of grease in there to catch any grit before the grit can reach the grease which is stirred by the bearing balls and damage a race.

  13. #13
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,957
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Agreed, they're not useless. Leave them on.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    21,015
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    Agreed, they're not useless. Leave them on.
    Some 40+ years ago an old time engineer gave me a good lesson that's apropos here.

    There are no useless parts on manufactured products. Every designer and production manager is under heavy pressure to keep costs down and since every part costs money, they would have eliminated any useless part, along with some that might have been useful.

    If the engineers didn't feel those split washers served an important purpose they wouldn't be making Shimano waste the penny or whatever using them.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ljsense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Madison, Wis.
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    There are no useless parts on manufactured products. Every designer and production manager is under heavy pressure to keep costs down and since every part costs money, they would have eliminated any useless part, along with some that might have been useful.
    What about the parts that are put there for marketing purposes?

  16. #16
    I let the dogs out AlphaDogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    My Bikes
    2011 Fuji Roubaix 1.0, 2003 Ti Merlin Solis, & 1994 Raleigh MT200
    Posts
    1,934
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
    What about the parts that are put there for marketing purposes?
    Is marketing not a use?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
    Weird spell/word check. "***" is "***". I'll never understand this computer. Andy.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    21,015
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
    What about the parts that are put there for marketing purposes?
    Marketing is a purpose, but these washers would'nt qualify as marketing items because most people don't even know they're there. So that means the engineers figured they served a mechanical purpose.

    I've set up production machinery, and it's drilled into your head that every operation, every detail, is an extra liability even if it's overlapped and doesn't add to the production time. That groove the washers fit in, means a tool to be set and maintained. Another inspection check, and more potential for rejects, which on automatic machines can mean lots of parts before the fault is detected.

    Whether they actually do what they're supposed is another story.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
    What about the parts that are put there for marketing purposes?
    Those rings are buried in the dust cap and I have never seen Shimano advertise them. No one knows about them when buying a bike.

    They keep grit out of the hub. They come on Deore hubs which are for MTBs.

    If one is lost maybe a substitute could be cobbled up out of a greased piece of twine with the ends superglued together?

  19. #19
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    4,203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garage sale GT View Post
    Those are plastic rings. They don't retain anything. They ride inside the inner diameter of a hub mounted stamped sheet steel dust cover, which is flanged to have a cylindrical inner surface which fits around the cone where the rings are.
    I'll take your word for it, although If there was a dust cover involved I'd kinda expect to see it on the cone. My e-bike has something similar, but only one ring, definately metal and holds on a rubber seal. Looked similar and I assumed they were.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •