Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-12, 06:05 PM   #1
kevmk81 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kevmk81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Springfield, IL
Bikes: Trek 1500, Cannondale CAAD10
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
headset caged bearings

I'm replacing 5/32" caged bearings from both top and bottom races on my headset. The cage has 16 bearings.

If I'm going to use non-caged bearings, what would be a good amount? Is it just as simple as 'put as many as you can in, minus 1'? Have 21 in both top and bottom currently.
kevmk81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-12, 06:09 PM   #2
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Would have more bikes if I had time to ride them all. Previous bikes: 1968 Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fav), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.
Posts: 6,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
That's fine - do it. Just be sure to use all new bearings.
cny-bikeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-12, 06:12 PM   #3
JiveTurkey
Low car diet
 
JiveTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR, USA
Bikes: 2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
Posts: 2,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmk81 View Post
I'm replacing 5/32" caged bearings from both top and bottom races on my headset. The cage has 16 bearings.

If I'm going to use non-caged bearings, what would be a good amount? Is it just as simple as 'put as many as you can in, minus 1'? Have 21 in both top and bottom currently.
I'd put as many of the existing size in that will fit, with there still being a minimal amount of space left over. Put them in first without grease and count.
JiveTurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-12, 06:38 PM   #4
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmk81 View Post
Is it just as simple as 'put as many as you can in, minus 1'?
Yes, it's that simple. With headsets, put as many balls in that will sit in the cup without jumbling, and then remove one ball. With loose-ball hubs, bottom brackets, etc you should put in as many balls as will fit without jumbling, and that's it; don't remove one. Loose ball headsets will bind and not work smoothly if you use the same method as with other bearing assemblies on the bike.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-12, 09:06 PM   #5
kevmk81 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kevmk81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Springfield, IL
Bikes: Trek 1500, Cannondale CAAD10
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, I redid the headset, instead of 21, I fit 25 total. I should have known better, but this was my first loose ball headset. Thanks for the help everyone.
kevmk81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 10:30 AM   #6
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,551
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Put them in until the "Jumble" and then remove two. That usually means 25.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 10:58 AM   #7
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Put them in until the "Jumble" and then remove two. That usually means 25.
Yes, for headsets n minus two with "n" being the number of balls that has the cup full with one additional ball not able to sit down in the cup correctly (the "jumble"). Or just fill the cup to capacity (all balls sitting in the cup correctly with room for no more) and remove one........ Same thing, different words.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 01:04 PM   #8
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,551
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
You're right. I just wanted to say "jumble". That's what it says in the book.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 01:24 PM   #9
JiveTurkey
Low car diet
 
JiveTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR, USA
Bikes: 2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
Posts: 2,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't quite understand why the headset should have one fewer bearing than hubs and bottom brackets, but I'll take your word for it.
JiveTurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 01:42 PM   #10
bobotech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiveTurkey View Post
I don't quite understand why the headset should have one fewer bearing than hubs and bottom brackets, but I'll take your word for it.
I think as a general rule, loose bearings need to be put into a race minus 1. You don't want bearings to completely fill up a race otherwise there would be too much friction causing problems.
bobotech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 01:50 PM   #11
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
I think as a general rule, loose bearings need to be put into a race minus 1. You don't want bearings to completely fill up a race otherwise there would be too much friction causing problems.
No, loose-ball hubs for example should have as many balls as will fit in the cup without jumbling. Bottom brackets, too. Headsets are different in that they tend to bind and not be smooth unless you remove an extra ball.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 02:21 PM   #12
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I just wanted to say "jumble".
I don't blame you.....it's a cool word.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 02:38 PM   #13
Bill Kapaun
Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Bikes: 86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.
Posts: 9,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
I think as a general rule, loose bearings need to be put into a race minus 1. You don't want bearings to completely fill up a race otherwise there would be too much friction causing problems.
Shimano certainly doesn't agree with you for their hubs.
Bill Kapaun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 03:05 PM   #14
bobotech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Shimano certainly doesn't agree with you for their hubs.
Well i am just learning. So I have learned something new. I just am thinking in general whenever I have dealt with loose bearings in the past. Like bearings on my moped or old ATC three wheelers. I always put as many bearings as I could in the race and then when they filled it up to the point where they started to push each other, I would remove one of them..

Last edited by bobotech; 02-15-12 at 03:11 PM.
bobotech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-12, 03:07 PM   #15
JiveTurkey
Low car diet
 
JiveTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR, USA
Bikes: 2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
Posts: 2,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by well biked View Post
No, loose-ball hubs for example should have as many balls as will fit in the cup without jumbling. Bottom brackets, too. Headsets are different in that they tend to bind and not be smooth unless you remove an extra ball.
Hmm... maybe it has to do with the fact that the headset doesn't rotate completely like hubs and BBs and the bearings sort of settle into an optimal place for short movements?
JiveTurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-12, 10:14 AM   #16
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,624
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
After all this discussion, I now would like a real logical scientific mechanical reason for removing one or two balls.

If the reason is that since the headset doesnt turn clear around, and the balls will stay in the same place and wear, what about caged bearings. The cage will stay in the same place, so that reason doesnt seem valid.

Last edited by rydabent; 02-16-12 at 10:18 AM.
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-12, 01:38 PM   #17
mikeinroch
Senior Member
 
mikeinroch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: 1982 Team Fuji, 1992 Nishiki Backroads, 2002 Mongoose Pro ZeroG
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe the reason is because the headset is the only bearing that is regularly reversing direction? And it is important that this reversal happens smoothly.
mikeinroch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:40 PM.