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Old 02-14-12, 02:13 PM   #1
reddog3
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Weight weinie wheel (triplet lacing)

As noted in another thread on "triplet lacing" I provide my experiences with these wheels. This is not so much about the lacing pattern, but more about the choices of parts, and why. And... my initial observations.

1st- I'm a weight wienie to a degree. I know- light, strong, cheap- pick two. But I'm always searching. It makes life fun. (how the hell do you spell wienie?)

2nd- I don't have enough experience as a wheelbuilder to be telling anyone how to do things, so take from this what you will- and don't blame me!

It's about the parts. As I said I'm always looking for the light-strong, and cheap. So... looking for inexpensive light parts I turned to the Bikehubstore. We'll see about the strong part in short order.

Rear- Superlight hub, 16DS and 8NDS drilling. Kinlin XR19W (24 hole rim) Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes.

Front- Ultralight hub. Kinlin XR-200 rim (24 hole). Again with the Sapim bladed spokes, and standard brass nipples.

Now for the stories- This may be a little long winded so if you get tired just hit the back button. LOL

These wheels are an experiment for a buddy of mine. He's a "closet weight weinie" too. And on a budget. 160 pound triathelete always looking for way to cut a little weight. He commutes 34 miles to work- smooth terrain, but half hills, and a few RR tracks. He has powerful legs but is more of a spinner than a masher. But, he is notoriously hard on wheels. I've shied away from doing wheels for him because of this. I finally sucuumbed with the appropriate warnings. All in all, I wanted a good test for these parts, and I'm getting it. Rather than save them for race day, he's commuting on them, to see if they will be race-worthy.

My first impression when I took the parts from the box was good. We'll just have to see how they build up and hold up. When contemplating this build I knew that just any 24 hole rim wasn't going to work due to the directional drilling. I asked the folks at BHS (bikehubstore). They assured my the Kinlin rims were center drilled so were appropriate for different spoke patterns.

The reason that just "any" 24 hole rim won't work is the drilling. With this lacing pattern you have two adjacent spokes at the rim pointing to the same spoke flange. That would be bad because you'd have one nipple seating "unnaturally" and I'm sure the stresses would not be a good thing.

BHS also sent me an e-mail from one of their (wheelbuilder) customers who's built these before with great success. These being new to me, I figgered the best thing to do would be to follow his suggestions, so I did. So... drag out the parts and let's get these put together!

Funny thing happened- I started lacing up the rear wheel (radial NDS, 3x DS). As suggested I did the NDS first- heads out. Then the DS. Guess what? This was in no way going to work. The spokes were too short! It was late when I started these, and I just wasn't thinking. Typically on a rear wheel the longer spoke goes to the NDS. So that's how I started. Not so with the radial lacing. The NDS is the "shorter" spoke!

My first clue should have been when I discovered what I thought was mis-ordering the spokes on my part. I had too many long spokes and not enough short ones (thinking the short ones were for the DS.) It was late when I started so rather than sort it out, I called it a night.

The next day, with plenty of coffee, I went looking for the problem. I'd ordered the spokes without having the rims and hubs on hand. My first thought was that either the published specs were wrong, or I read them wrong. So now having the parts on hand I measured them and compared them to the published specs. Measurements were all close enough to not affect spoke length to any measurable degree. So... back to the spoke calculator to enter the "NEW" measurements. That's when I discovered my error. I had the spokes on the wrong sides of the hub. The short ones REALLY do go on the NDS. So much for this dumbassed noobies way of thinking!

Switching things around this wheel went together without a hitch. Following the advice of the other builder I built it using his suggestions. Heads out NDS (radial), heads out- trailing DS, heads in- leading DS (3x). Always thinking it didn't matter a hoot either way, I did it his way. The heads out NDS prevented a nasty bend as the spoke exited the flange. This I liked. I had heard about some breakage of the Sapims near the bend where they stamp the brand. So I thought, let's don't bend them at that point. I did use spoke washers on the NDS because I wasn't happy with the lose fit.

It seemed to me that the DS lacing (heads out-trailing) reduced the deflection at the cross. Maybe not but if it did I liked the look better.

On to the trueing and tensioning. One needs to exercise a little more patience truing these wheels. There's less rim support due the spacing of 24 spokes, and you only have 8 pulling on the NDS. It just goes a bit slower and in smaller steps. Not at all difficult though. I will say this about "these" Kinlin rims. They are the MOST ROUND of any rim I have ever seen. I like that. No work required to keep them round throughout the process. These wheels are round!

Working in small steps the tension was brought up to the final stages. One of the reasons for choosing this hub and lacing pattern was to equalize tension between sides. The final tension was brought up to 125Kgf DS, and 110 NDS. Try that with equal number of spokes on the same side. As I approached final tension it went a bit slower to maintain proper dish. DS tension had to be approached "slower" because the more spokes on that side pulled harder on the rim.

All in all, I found it surprisingly easy to obtain a very true wheel that was round with good tensioning. Whether or not they meet the goal... I'd like them to, but if they don't, oh well. Had to find out though, and for the minimal investment in some light parts, it's worth a try.

That's enough wind- here's a couple pics. Sorry for the length-





Weight for the rear- total for the set- 1315g. Try that any other way for $400!
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Old 02-14-12, 02:14 PM   #2
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Sorry for the pics- I'll fix it later!
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Old 02-14-12, 03:32 PM   #3
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Old 02-14-12, 03:33 PM   #4
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I like it. I recently read that site and am also curious to build a wheel like that. I'm interested in knowing what limits on riding conditions I should place on it and how it holds up. I hope you can keep us abreast.
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Old 02-15-12, 01:07 AM   #5
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Hey Tom- Thanks for "rescuing" the pics. I just got back here to do it, but you saved me. I intend fully to keep track of this setup and report back. They will get "tested," I guarantee it. Won't take long with this guy. LOL My thread was not a "how-to," but more of a "what-if." Suggestions are always welcomed however- as usual.

RD
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Old 02-15-12, 04:16 AM   #6
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Really interesting post. Thanks.

This site might be of interest - even if all it does is show how someone else spells weenie. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/
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Old 02-16-12, 01:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jolly_ross View Post
Really interesting post. Thanks.

This site might be of interest - even if all it does is show how someone else spells weenie. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/
AHA- there you go! When I was searchinmg for the correct spelling I went to the fridge and rummaged through all the packages. All I could come up with were "franks."
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Old 06-21-12, 02:33 PM   #8
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How are these wheels standing up, if you're out there reddog3? I'm thinking of building up a very similar set (probably using Sapim Race for NDS) for big climbing days only at 160-163 lbs.
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Old 06-22-12, 05:29 AM   #9
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Hmm, wonder how the evenly-spaced holes go with DS, NDS, DS, DS, NDS, DS etc... doesn't seem right to me.

Oh well, I guess the proof's in the pudding. If it's a goer I might try doing it on a 32h hub, using every second NDS hole...
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