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Old 02-18-12, 08:38 PM   #1
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Ever used these tools?

Hey guys. I am in need of picking up a couple of tools. I really need a steerer tube cutter but I want one that can handle alloys as well as my main need which is for my carbon steerer. Anybody use one of these? The price is awesome considering it does both.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail.htm...d=325%20SETTC6

What files do you guys use for it afterword. Those reaming tools are insanely expensive.

Also, what is best set of allen wrenches with rounded ends on them for the money? I am tired of trying to install bottle cages and such with my 3 point a/w.

And this for a stand compared tot he PCS 9
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/156...d-Tote-Bag.htm

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Old 02-18-12, 08:49 PM   #2
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I don't think a pipe cutter would work on carbon. Plain old hacksaw would.
A fine half-round file will work to remove burrs. Or just wrap some sandpaper around something with a smaller diameter.
What reamer are you referring to ? Reamers are for precision work to enlargen the inside diameter to an exact size.

Harware stores sell allen wrenches.
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Old 02-18-12, 08:56 PM   #3
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You absolutely, positively cannot use a tubing cutter for a carbon steerer. Using one raises the real risk of of creating longitudinal stress cracks in the steerer, possible leading to a sudden, unannounced failure later on.

I don't know when people started using tubing cutters which are made for ductile pipe and copper tubing, to cut steerers. The proper tool is the plain old, unglamorous hacksaw. Buy a blade with 32 or more teeth and then use a file to clean up metal tubes or medium/fine sandpaper on a block for carbon fiber.

If you can't cut straight, you can buy 2 hose clamps and put one on either side of the cut and the saw will follow the gap between them.
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Old 02-18-12, 09:34 PM   #4
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Awesome great to know. I am glad I didn't jump into something that wouldn't work.

How about the work stand? I need one that holds bike by the seat post. THinking about building one with a 2x4 beam and a wall mount stand.
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Old 02-19-12, 12:14 AM   #5
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Get on of these works great Tube Cutting Guide I guess if you want to use hose clamps that works also but its nice to have the right tool for the job if you use it often.
The stand all depends on what you want to spend but that one works fine I have a Parks PCS 10 and like it.

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Old 02-19-12, 08:13 AM   #6
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You absolutely, positively cannot use a tubing cutter for a carbon steerer. Using one raises the real risk of of creating longitudinal stress cracks in the steerer, possible leading to a sudden, unannounced failure later on.

I don't know when people started using tubing cutters which are made for ductile pipe and copper tubing, to cut steerers. The proper tool is the plain old, unglamorous hacksaw. Buy a blade with 32 or more teeth and then use a file to clean up metal tubes or medium/fine sandpaper on a block for carbon fiber.

If you can't cut straight, you can buy 2 hose clamps and put one on either side of the cut and the saw will follow the gap between them.
Oh, it will be announced! Just not much time to react!!! Good idea with the clamps. If you wrap a piece of heavy tape around it first then install the clamps it should help with any chipping.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:06 AM   #7
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Get on of these works great Tube Cutting Guide I guess if you want to use hose clamps that works also but its nice to have the right tool for the job if you use it often.
The stand all depends on what you want to spend but that one works fine I have a Parks PCS 10 and like it.
I have the same cutting guide you referenced and it works very well for cutting any type of steerer and for shortening MTB seatposts for road bike use. For one-time use it isn't worth the cost but if you plan to work on several bikes over the years it's a worthwhile investment.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:10 AM   #8
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and don't inhale the dust. Inside of you, carbon fiber dust does the exact same thing asbestos does.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:13 AM   #9
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Awesome great to know. I am glad I didn't jump into something that wouldn't work.

How about the work stand? I need one that holds bike by the seat post. THinking about building one with a 2x4 beam and a wall mount stand.
For quite a bit less than $115, you can buy a high quality Park branded stand USED. I see workstands for sell used quite a bit, every single workstand I have owned was bought used. I would not go the homemade route. If you shop around, you should be able to find a Park stand used for around $50 to $60.

In fact, I have occasionally seen the professional level stand (single bike model) at that $115 price. You have to move fast if you see one of them for that price.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:21 AM   #10
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and don't inhale the dust. Inside of you, carbon fiber dust does the exact same thing asbestos does.
This mistaken myth has been repeated here a lot. Carbon dust is a nuisance dust but it is not a serious danger and certainly not in the same league as asbestos. Here is a quote from Hexel's MSDS for carbon fibers :

"This product is not classified as a Hazardous Chemical as defined by the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard, 29 CFR 1910.1200.

Where specific exposure limits for component dusts are not established, the levels provided for (Total/Inhalable) dust and (Respirable) fraction reflect the classification of Particulates Not Otherwise Regulated (PNOR) by OSHA or Specified (PNOS) by ACGIH."


Certainly a home mechanic cutting a steerer or two is in no danger. Sure, avoid unnecessary breathing of the dust but I'd make the same recommendation for cutting wood.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:21 AM   #11
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I never used a tubing cutter on carbon... well I never needed to cut carbon.

as for files after cutting I use a deburring tool



I never used that stand but it looks alot like my Bontarger. any decent stand is better than no stand.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:35 AM   #12
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I never used a tubing cutter on carbon... well I never needed to cut carbon.

as for files after cutting I use a deburring tool



I never used that stand but it looks alot like my Bontarger. any decent stand is better than no stand.
this is nice for the inside of metal tubes like seatposts, steerers and bars. plumbing section also has tool called an inner/outer reamer that works for inside and outside of the pipe.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:36 AM   #13
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I never used a tubing cutter on carbon... well I never needed to cut carbon.
Good! FBiNY's warning was spot-on. You must NEVER use a tubing cutter for a carbon steerer. I've cut several carbon steerers using a fine (32tpi) hacksaw with minimal pressure and the cutting quide referenced above and that procedure works very well. Relatively fine (120 grit) sandpaper is good for smoothing up the cut and putting a small bevel on the cut's edges to ease inserting the expander plug and installing the spacers and stem.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:51 AM   #14
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This is exactly why I asked these questions! You guys/gals are great as always. By homemade route, I didn't mean I would be rigging somethign together. But I would be using a Wall Mount Bicycle Repair Mount and establishing a vertical floor to ceiling beam using 1 or 2 2x4s. Attaching the wall mount to that would be what makes the stand. This route would cost me about 65-75 dollars and it would be semi custom, plus I would still be using a Park/Spin Doctor/Sette Bike repair mount. So it's not like it's not quality. I just figured, having a mobile one is nice. My current stand holds bikes by the BB so I do not use it on my carbon bike AT ALL.
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Old 02-19-12, 10:25 AM   #15
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Good! FBiNY's warning was spot-on. You must NEVER use a tubing cutter for a carbon steerer. I've cut several carbon steerers using a **fine (32tpi) hacksaw **with minimal pressure and the cutting quide referenced above and that procedure works very well. Relatively fine (120 grit) sandpaper is good for smoothing up the cut and putting a small bevel on the cut's edges to ease inserting the expander plug and installing the spacers and stem.

A fine hacksaw? that sounds like an oxymoron
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Old 02-19-12, 11:08 AM   #16
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A fine hacksaw? that sounds like an oxymoron
It's not.
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Old 02-19-12, 11:39 AM   #17
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There are several grades of cut fineness for hack saw blades measured in teeth per inch. TPI is the standard measure for other saw blades as well.
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Old 02-19-12, 11:52 AM   #18
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I understand hacksaws, tree saws, circular saws, and scroll saws. I have just been told to use a pipe cutter in the past, and the concept of the hacksaw seemed antiquated. However, you guys are telling me that is completely inaccurate and that a hacksaw is the way to go. I will look for 32 or better blade and get to work. I will probably take care of this after my force group arrives and I am doing the complete rebuild.

Also, Delmarva is one of the coolest names for a town. (Delaware-Maryland-Virgina) Assateague Island is definitely a cool place to visit if you are into Wild Horses and tourism.

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Old 02-19-12, 11:58 AM   #19
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... Carbon dust is a nuisance dust but it is not a serious danger and certainly not in the same league as asbestos.
Correct, of course. Asbestos is special.

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Old 02-19-12, 12:08 PM   #20
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1. use a 32tpi hacksaw and take your time, use light strokes. The weight of the hacksaw alone should be plenty of pressure. A saw guide is great to have too.

2. if you want to get extra-fancy, unclamp the steer tube in the saw guide after getting about 1/3 of the way through, and rotate it away from you so the saw teeth are cutting only the side closer to you. When you're nearly through, rotate it away again and go as lightly as possible for the last bit. The idea is that the saw teeth are only cutting from the outside wall to the inside wall as much as possible.

3. after the cut is done, buffing the end of the steertube with Scotchbrite works great.

4. if you do have some small carbon splinters showing, it's not necessarily the end of the world. Superglue them down to inhibit peeling/spreading.

5. MAKE SURE you use the internal reinforcement plug that came with the fork and install it as per the instructions. Don't use a conventional star nut.
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Old 02-19-12, 12:09 PM   #21
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This mistaken myth has been repeated here a lot. Carbon dust is a nuisance dust but it is not a serious danger and certainly not in the same league as asbestos. Here is a quote from Hexel's MSDS for carbon fibers :

"This product is not classified as a Hazardous Chemical as defined by the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard, 29 CFR 1910.1200.

Where specific exposure limits for component dusts are not established, the levels provided for (Total/Inhalable) dust and (Respirable) fraction reflect the classification of Particulates Not Otherwise Regulated (PNOR) by OSHA or Specified (PNOS) by ACGIH."


Certainly a home mechanic cutting a steerer or two is in no danger. Sure, avoid unnecessary breathing of the dust but I'd make the same recommendation for cutting wood.
I've read the MSDS for carbon fiber and it sure doesn't sound fun to inhale it either way.
oh, and it is recommended to wear a filter mask when cutting wood with power tools.

Anyways, it's not a bad practice to wear appropriate safety gear when working with hazardous things.
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Old 02-19-12, 12:13 PM   #22
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.... and the concept of the hacksaw seemed antiquated.
This is a common example of flawed thinking. We live in a society where we're constantly bombarded by the message that newer is better. Everything is always "new and improved". While it's true in many cases, the converse doesn't hold. Older isn't necessarily worse, and in many cases the old remains unsurpassed by the new. There are countless examples of this and the hacksaw is one of them.

From a bike perspective the pipe or tubing cutter as just about as old as the hacksaw both dating back over a century. The only thing that's new about pipe cutters for cutting steerers is that someone "discovered" the application around the time of threadless headsets and it seems to have caught on, probably first among folks who couldn't saw straight.

As to which is better, consider that pipe (tubing) cutters are designed to cut soft materials like copper or ductile iron pipe. They're OK for aluminum steerers, and some non heat treated steel ones also, but hot suited for harder heat-treated CrMo steerers, and certainly not for carbon which isn't ductile at all.

So the lowly hacksaw remains the tool of choice, but don't think of it as antiquated. Today's blades are nothing like their predecessors, bi-metal blades are more common, as are specific blades for just about any application or material.

BTW- in the old vs. new and improved debate, is there anyone who seriously believes that the new variations of Oreo cookies are better than the original, which which will be 100 years old in 3 weeks?
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Old 02-19-12, 12:18 PM   #23
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BTW- in the old vs. new and improved debate, is there anyone who seriously believes that the new variations of Oreo cookies are better than the original, which which will be 100 years old in 3 weeks?
Damn, 100 yrs.! What's their shelf life?
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Old 02-19-12, 12:19 PM   #24
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This is a common example of flawed thinking. We live in a society where we're constantly bombarded by the message that newer is better. Everything is always "new and improved". While it's true in many cases, the converse doesn't hold. Older isn't necessarily worse, and in many cases the old remains unsurpassed by the new. There are countless examples of this and the hacksaw is one of them.

From a bike perspective the pipe or tubing cutter as just about as old as the hacksaw both dating back over a century. The only thing that's new about pipe cutters for cutting steerers is that someone "discovered" the application around the time of threadless headsets and it seems to have caught on, probably first among folks who couldn't saw straight.

As to which is better, consider that pipe (tubing) cutters are designed to cut soft materials like copper or ductile iron pipe. They're OK for aluminum steerers, and some non heat treated steel ones also, but hot suited for harder heat-treated CrMo steerers, and certainly not for carbon which isn't ductile at all.

So the lowly hacksaw remains the tool of choice, but don't think of it as antiquated. Today's blades are nothing like their predecessors, bi-metal blades are more common, as are specific blades for just about any application or material.

BTW- in the old vs. new and improved debate, is there anyone who seriously believes that the new variations of Oreo cookies are better than the original, which which will be 100 years old in 3 weeks?
All very good points. In regards to the Oreos. I am sucker for the Fudge Mint dipped Oreos. But I do like the regular Oreos best. more than double stuff, more than flavored, or Ut oh oreo, or anything else.
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Old 02-19-12, 12:19 PM   #25
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Damn, 100 yrs.! What's their shelf life?
Oddly enough. 100 years.
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