bfloyd6969

Hello all. I have a single speed / fixed gear bike that I am wanting to convert to a 3 speed. I have seen the Sturmy Archer 3 and 5 speed hubs, but I really don't know much about them other than they are internally geared. Are internally geared hubs just as smooth as external gears with derailleur? Like I said, I really know nothing about internally geared hubs.

Another option I am consider is a 2 speed hub and I see that SA also has a 2 speed kick back hub. How does this work? I see there is no shifter for this. Is it a smooth working option? I wish to not use a coaster brake....

Thanks for the help.

MichaelW

Internal hub gears are smooth and reliable. They loose a bit of efficiency compared to a clean, new derailleur setup but compare well to that derailleur system after a hard winter of daily use.
SA hubs can slip between the gears if they are not properly adjusted. SRAM and Shimano use a different design and have no slippage.
Some of the SA hubs are designed for hard, high performance use, these have a splined, threaded driver like a freehub rather than the usual 3-tang sprocket with circlip. Their 3 speed fixed hub is one such hub.
SA hubs come in coaster or rim brake and a few disc brake options.

tcs

Welcome to the party!

tcs

This actually depends on both the IGH model one is talking about and the gear one is in on both the IGH and the derailleur bike. See IHPVA #52.

This is badly outdated information. In 1984 Sturmey-Archer began producing NIG (no inbetween gear) 3-speed models (5-speed in 1991), and in the current millennium that's all they have built. Older SRAM (Fichtel&Sachs) three-speeds had a neutral between gears 2 and 3 as well.

For retrofitting an existing SS bike, S-A is a good choice. Unlike Shimano and SRAM, Sturmey-Archer offers narrow OLD 3-, 5- and 8- speed models with a variety of shifters, and a great many internal components are available for their hubs as well.

tcs

The SA S2 Duomatic two-speed hub is an update on the Fichtel&Sachs two-speed kickback shifting hubs of the 1960s. You rock the cranks back to make the hub shift between the two ratios (1/1 and 1.37/1). It takes a bit of knack to do this cleanly and reliably, but the rider can choose when they want to shift.

SRAM also offers a two-speed hub, the Automatix, an update on the Fichtel&Sachs automatic shifting hubs of the 1960s. Despite SRAM's contradictory and confusing description of their own product, it also offers 1/1 and 1.37/1 ratios. The hub automatically shifts itself at a predetermined speed. The rider doesn't have to do anything to make the hub shift, but the rider also can't choose or change the shift speed.

Doohickie

I have a bike with a Sturmey Archer S2 (kick shift, no brake). I got the wheel with that hub on Craigslist. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend it. I have two complaints with the hub: 1. When you stop, it does not default to low gear. To me, this is a no-brainer feature; when you start out, you want to be in low. Instead, you have to simply start pedaling and if the pedaling is hard, you have to shift from H to L. 2. I've had the hub for a while now, and still getting the hang of how to shift it. Sometimes a little kick will do it, sometimes I move the pedals backwards a lot and it doesn't shift.

On the plus side, I like having a bike that has no shift cables on it. Kind of a clean look.

An alternative to the the SA hub is the SRAM Automatix.



It shifts based on the speed that your wheel is spinning. When you get going fast enough, it upshifts. When you slow down, it downshifts. The rider doesn't have direct control, but I think the way the bike shifts on its own is pretty much what a rider wants anyway. I had an old bike that had the same shift scheme and I really liked the way it worked.

tcs

Uh, just like all derailleur bikes?

rhenning

If you ride 2 speeds a lot as I did as a kid on a Schwinn with a Bendix 2 speed. You quickly learn to brake twice as you slow down to stop so it is low gear when you start out again. Kind of a no brainer. Roger

Doohickie

But at least you know what gear you're in with a derailleur bike. With my two speed, sometimes I kick it down and verify that I'm in low gear, come to a stop, and when I start out, it's back in high gear (due to pedaling backwards ever-so-slightly when coming to my final stop and/or when restarting). It's fine when it's in gear, but selecting the correct gear is a little wonky.

But with the S2 (model with no coaster brake), there is no "hard stop" when pedaling backwards. You have to just hold your feet still. Sometimes, hitting a bump or a hill or even putting your foot down can result in an unintended backpedal that shifts it back up to high gear.

I have an old Bendix in the garage, in pieces, that I got from another BF member. I haven't tackled it yet, but I'd like to get that running at some point.

Tuc

I have the coaster brake model, S-RC3 because I wanted the coaster brake, but one of the ones MichaelW mentions in the post above is the S3X @ https://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/47 which is a very nice all weather unit, smooth and slick. IMO, the two speed kick back hubs are kinda dorky and unreliable to ride around on in the city with the stops and starts, curbs, etc... SA has made 3-speed units for probably 50 years with little change other than before 84 and after, they are all over the place for sale cheap and the old ones don't need much more that adjusting the cones and some ATF fluid to bring back to life. Sheldon Browns website has excellent resources on taking one of these old units apart and rebuilding them to like new.

fietsbob

Fwiw current, SA 5 speed adds a wider ratio above and below the .75 & 1.33 ratios of the 3 speed.

the new S3X is the lower 3/5ths of the 5 speed ratios, the driver a threaded-spline combo

so you can thread on a single-speed freewheel or use it as a splined cog fixed.

The newer Sun Race Sturmey Archer, NIG hubs (no in-between Gear) solved the slipping
issues of the UK 3 speed AW.. when they took over the Manufacturing.

tcs

Well, since you brought it up:
1936 - Debut of the AW model as a cost reduced replacement for the K hub
1945 - Improvements to the thrust ring and clutch spring
1951 - Switch to three-splined driver, improvements to the main axle, clutch and gear ring
1957 - Switch to pressed in LH ball cup, combined dogs
1983 - Cost reductions to rear ring, driver, planet cage. Improvements to RH ball ring, main axle
1984 - Debut of -NIG on one model
1985 - Grease lubrication (eliminated lubricator)
1989 - RH ball ring updated w/ nylon bearing ring, changes to driver, axle
1997 - Switch to blind gear ring
2001 - Added -NIG to all models

Airburst

I have nothing but good things to say for the Sturmey-Archer 3-speed. It's a damn good hub, and it will stand you in good stead, as will the 5-speed. I've never tried the 2-speed, so I'll avoid any judgements on it, but the idea seems like a good one.

That's not to say the Shimano and SRAM hubs aren't good, but as far as I know, only the SA hubs can be spaced down to 120mm across the locknuts, and that might be a consideration if you have a dedicated singlespeed frame as opposed to a conversion.

bfloyd6969

Thanks for all the help everyone - much appreciated! My frame rear spacing is 120mm.

I do like the idea of keeping the single speed look by using the 2 speed kickback (free of shifting cable), but I do want a smooth reliable operation. It still may be for me, but I am thinking that I may like the 3 speed better - with cable and shifter. Are the shifters available in different types (i.e. bar end type, handlebar type, etc.)? Do they sell the SA hubs already built up to rims or just the hubs themselves? If the former is available, where is a good source to buy?

Scooby214

My Shimano Nexus 3 has 120mm spacing. I'm not saying it is superior to a Sturmey Archer, but it has been dependable for me.

fietsbob

Sachs made IG hubs in Germany, SRAM investors bought it out,
last German factory was closed this year,
and the production is, as with so much bike stuff, shifted to Taiwan.

GeoKrpan

I had Schwinn Super Deluxe Stingray in the early 1960s with a 2 speed hub with coaster brake. It worked well, just as you said.

A Super Deluxe Stingray had chrome fenders, the back fender with a flip, white wall tires, the back tire a slick that looked like a dragster tire, springer fork, chromed and color matched chain guard, and the 2 speed hub. I think it cost $69 which was a lot at the time. I added a sissy bar with iron cross reflector, color matched metal flake grips and tuck and roll seat cover.

gmt13

I have over 1000 miles on my SA S2 (without coaster) and I like it very much, despite the issue of not knowing what gear you may be in when you stop. Experience makes this almost a non-issue. I rode this bike SS for a year before the switch and, although it was ok, I really like not having to compromise. My decision point was the simplicity - no cables, no adjusting, etc. If you don't mind the additional complexity, you may enjoy the 3 speed more, just because you won't have to recalibrate your riding quirks.

-G

Jeff Wills

Some places offer pre-built wheels with 3-speed hubs (like Harris Cyclery: https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheelsint.html ) but shipping a built wheel can be expensive. You may find it worth your while to find a good bike shop that will get the hub you want and lace it to the appropriate rim.

bfloyd6969

Thanks everyone!