bobotech

I am enjoying building wheels. Now that I am laid up with a broken leg, I am thinking of building another set of wheels just for fun. I would like to build another freehub 27 x 1 1/4 wheelset. This is more for fun and practice than actual need.

I was thinking on just reusing the weinmann alloy rim and double butted spokes with a freehub assembly.

The coop doesn't have any 700c rims otherwise I would be building them.

Also is it possible to get non-stainless steel spokes to shine up pretty good?

This is all done on a super budget. I don't want to spend 36 dollars for a set of spokes when these wheels are more for fun and experience. Hence why I want to reuse spokes. The coop doesn't have any stainless spokes in lengths greater than 297 and I believe I will need longer lengths for the 27 inch wheels. The last set of wheels I built were with Araya rims that look like similar ERD and similar hub spacing and needed 301-303 mm spokes.

hueyhoolihan

i only know of three types of spokes, stainless steel, chromed steel and galvanized steel. i suppose you could use a magnet to tell the stainless from the rest, but it could be inconclusive depending on the magnet... maybe somebody has a better idea?

and if you don't want to buy new spokes your options are limited.

bobotech

Well I checked the spokes with a magnet and they were magnetic however I used an extremely powerful magnet, a hard drive magnet. The magnet did seem to stick fairly okay to the spokes. I need to repeat the test on one of my other wheels with stainless spokes though to really get a good idea.

I'm just wondering if its a bad thing to reuse galvanized spokes.

Doohickie

It's a bad thing to use older spokes if they have any kind of use on them, period. You will go through the labor of building a wheel that may last just a few miles.

FBinNY 

The stainless alloy usually used for spokes is slightly magnetic, whereas non stainless steel is clearly magnetic. If in doubt compare the magnetic attraction to a paper clip.

You can also tell by color. Stainless spokes have a slightly yellowish or golden tinge. Chrome palted spokde (rare these days) are silvery and shiny, and zinc plated or galvanized spokes are light grey and dull, looking somewhat like aluminum.

I only build using top quality spokes since I value my labor, and want spokes of comparable quality to the rest of the wheels components.

OTOH, if building for fun or practice, the labor has no value since it's the object, and using less expensive spokes will make the learning experience cheaper.

fietsbob

Zinc , galvanized coated, I'd leave them be, rather than try to make them shiny.

mrrabbit 

Actually not true regarding the magnetic test....

All the magnetic test does is give an indication of how much composition-wise certain elements were used in the stainless steel alloy. Certain year issuances of Phil Wood stainless steel spokes for example will adhere to a magnet like a stuck pig with lipstick.

While in general you can use the magnet test to separate UCP, chrome plated, galvanized and zinc spokes from known stainless steel spokes - it becomes an unreliable tool when trying to use it as a blind test for stainless steel spokes.

=8-)

HillRider

+1. The zinc is what keeps them from rusting and polishing it thinner will only make the spokes more vulnerable.

The stainless steel used for spokes in most commonly 304 and almost completely non-magnetic. The drawing process can make some of the spokes slightly magnetic but the difference in magnetic attraction between them and regular carbon steel spokes is dramatic.

noglider 

I reuse galvanized spokes if I believe the wheel hasn't been abused. It's hard to know, though, so you should know you're taking a risk. It may be a risk worth taking. Spokes are amazingly expensive.

bobotech

Well then should I just use a bunch of new galvanized spokes? the coop is out of the stainless spokes but we still have a ton of galvanized new spokes. That probably sounds like it would be a better idea anyway.

The galvanized spokes are only like 5-10 cents a piece at the coop.

FastJake

I would just do this. I've built wheels with used spokes before and they've held up fine but sometimes it's a pain if the threads are crappy, or you find out some of them are the wrong length....

Whatever you do, start with new nipples. Building with old corroded nipples is a constant frustration.

ThermionicScott 

Are you a heavy guy (not judging, but can't remember)? It would be a bummer to invest the time and effort into building a wheel that you couldn't fully trust. My vote's for the new galvanized spokes at a minimum.

- Scott

bobotech

yes, i am a heavy guy. I will do that, i will start with a set of new galvanized spokes and go from there.

lostarchitect 

I buy spokes from this guy on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/childhood_dr..._sop=15&_rdc=1

They're not brand name, but they seem to be nice spokes, and the prices are very good.

noglider 

That's a low price. Go for it.

mrrabbit 

.50 cents each after shipping = approx. 18.00 per wheel.

I bet they can be had at an LBS for .35 apiece...those that buy and stock generics.

=8-)

lostarchitect 

I get 36 cents each ($20.99 + $6.10 / 75), but point taken, IF you can find a shop that stocks generics (none near me do) and if they are willing / able to cut to whatever size you need (none near me are).

bobotech

Hey, I just realized something. Can I just use longer nipples and build a rim with shorter spokes? we have a large amount of SS spokes in the 297mm range but I will end up needing them in the 300-302mm range. I wonder if I could just use longer nipples and call it good? Might not look the best but mechanically that should be fine, right?

FastJake

AFAIK if you do this all the nipples will crack eventually. Spokes should really reach the rim. 4mm too short is too short.

FBinNY 

This was standard practice on mass market bikes some decades back. With steel nipples, it's perfectly OK. With brass nipples it's borderline, and experienced shows it's on the weak side of the borderline. With aluminum nipples, it's materially weaker, and will definitely fail sooner rather than later.

------

As I said short spokes and long nipples were SOP on dept. store bikes in the sixties, and wheel failures along with a pattern of other problems, like poor brakes, saddles that couldn't be tightened, handlebars that slipped, and others causing injuries led to the first US federal CPSC standards for bikes. Rather than stipulate what was OK or not, they set a number of functional tests that bikes and had to meet.

One was a spoke strength test. Short spokes with steel nipples passed with flying colors, as did correct length spokes with brass nipples, but short spokes and brass nipples failed 100% of the time.

bobotech

Now i'm just curious here, why would longer brass nipples fail quicker than shorter brass nipples? I'm not going to do it, I'm just wondering out loud.

FastJake

It's not that the nipples are longer that's the issue, but that the spokes are too short. With a spoke at it's proper length the only loads the nipple has is the threading and the rim pushing against it. With a spoke that's too short the nipple has to fill the gap, and will fail in tension because they're not designed for that.

mrrabbit 

One sentence:

Nipples are not spokes, nor intended to be used as such.

=8-)

FBinNY 

think of the nipple as a nut, since that's basically what it is. In face it's a nut with an extension to cover the threaded portion of the spoke, and provide a way to turn it with the tire still on.

So the part of the nipple is the head, and it acts like any other nut, pressing on the rim. That's where the strength counts, and where nipple material aluminum, brass or steel doesn't make a difference.

But the extension of the nipple through the rim to the other side isn't as strong, since it was never intended to carry the load. If you depend on this thin section to carry the load the nipple material suddenly gets very important, with brass and aluminum both inadequate to the task.

bobotech

I get it now! The nipple is nothing more than a nut and isn't designed to be used as an extension of the steel spoke. The steel spoke is quite a bit more stronger than the exposed brass nipple when a long nipple is used with a short spoke.

Makes sense to me now.