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  1. #1
    Senior Member NukeouT's Avatar
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    Is this rim toast? ('84 Matrix Strada)

    Original Matrix Strada/Maillard Helicomatic wheel that came with my 84 Trek 460. Started finally loosing spokes the other day. I removed the hub and spokes to try and salvage the rim.

    Looks like it's cracked at the seam both ways. It seems like building a new wheel with it might be unwise at this point. Just seeking confirmation so I can contently scrap it (being the bicycle parts hoarder that I am) if that's the case.






    Makes me wonder if this rim would have just popped one day if I repaired the spokes and kept riding the rim without spotting this...
    Time waits for no one

  2. #2
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    from the wear marks, it looks to me like it could have been like that for years, most likely came that way. saying that, it must give you a good "thump" when braking . not all that bad for almost 30 years although mileage is more important, i imagine.

    spoke breakage could be caused something else. if original spokes, most likely age and wear...

  3. #3
    Constant tinkerer FastJake's Avatar
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    Some rims (even new ones), that gap will get pulled together when the spokes are tensioned. I have not seen one that bad though. How was it when built?
    Why "derailer" is the correct way to spell the gear-change mechanism: sheldonbrown.com/derailer.html

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    Why are there rocks in your sink?



    As for the rim, I would junk it. And I'm a hard core parts hoarder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NukeouT View Post
    [IMG]
    Makes me wonder if this rim would have just popped one day if I repaired the spokes and kept riding the rim without spotting this...
    It probably wouldn't have done, the tension in the spokes puts the rim into compression around its circumference, and it would have had to pull apart quite some distance to actually separate.

    Seeing as you're rebuilding it, you may as well use a new rim, for the smoother braking if nothing else.

    And bobotech, why aren't there rocks in yours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
    Why are there rocks in your sink? ...
    i was thinking spanish doubloons.mixedpiratecoins00.JPG

  7. #7
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell from the photos but what does your brakeing surface feel like. If it has a concave feel (which is what I suspect) it's used up regardless of the condition of the seam.

  8. #8
    Senior Member NukeouT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    It's hard to tell from the photos but what does your brakeing surface feel like. If it has a concave feel (which is what I suspect) it's used up regardless of the condition of the seam.
    The braking surface is not concave at all. It's just that the rim was painted black, not anodized, and now the break pads have worn the paint off.






    [QUOTE=bobotech;14099861]Why are there rocks in your sink?

    It's a beautifull way of covering up the drain. Something I picked up during my short stay in Brentwood CA.

    Are these poke nipples re-usable and can I even get them off the spokes? I assume there is a heavy duty locking compound holding them to the spokes...

    Time waits for no one

  9. #9
    Constant tinkerer FastJake's Avatar
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    I would definitely not reuse those spokes. Maybe they are fine, but you'll certainly run into stripped threads and rounded off nipples. More of a pain than it's worth to save those junky old spokes. Just get some new ones.
    Why "derailer" is the correct way to spell the gear-change mechanism: sheldonbrown.com/derailer.html

  10. #10
    tcarl
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    I wouldn't reuse the spoke nipples. If you buy new spokes for the new wheel, you'll get new spoke nipples also. Regarding the rim, lots of (older?) rims came that way. I've seen other questions similar to yours here on BF. I tried to do a search and found someone on 4/12/12 asking about the same question as you are, except his wheel is still built up. I agree the "crack" looks wider than normal, I also would think it would pull together more with tightened spokes. I don't think the rim is toast, in fact I'd probably just build it up without thinking about it if it were mine. But I'll also claim to not know too much about the subject. There are some pretty knowledgeable people on here, wait a few more hours/days and see who else chimes in.

  11. #11
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    THere is no problem with the rim indicated by the gap in the rim joint. I would suspect it is 100% fine to relace onto a new hub.

  12. #12
    Senior Member NukeouT's Avatar
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    Well, it seems almost everyone agrees that it is still a good candidate for a new wheel. I will go ahead and build it up.

    So with the nipples the advice is, dont do it? Alright, I will donate them to the co-op and they can decide to scrap them or w/e.

    Just out of curiosity, is it possible to seperate the nipples from the spokes without damage, after the locking compund has set 30 years ago?
    Time waits for no one

  13. #13
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NukeouT View Post
    Well, it seems almost everyone agrees that it is still a good candidate for a new wheel. I will go ahead and build it up.

    So with the nipples the advice is, dont do it? Alright, I will donate them to the co-op and they can decide to scrap them or w/e.

    Just out of curiosity, is it possible to seperate the nipples from the spokes without damage, after the locking compund has set 30 years ago?
    If the spokes were stainless and the nipples all turned reasonably I'd reuse them and the spokes, if the spokes are otherwise unblemished. Back then Trek did not use stainless on the OEM wheels, at least not on my 1984 610's wheels. With the correct-fitting spoke wrench nipple rounding is a thing of the past, at least for me.

    You could put a bit of light oil on the nipples that are sticky and see if that helps, or perhaps a solvent. But if you build a new wheel with stainless spokes, after another 30 years it will still be easy to turn.

  14. #14
    Senior Member NukeouT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
    If the spokes were stainless and the nipples all turned reasonably I'd reuse them and the spokes, if the spokes are otherwise unblemished. Back then Trek did not use stainless on the OEM wheels...
    I took the grime off 5 randomly selected spokes, and none of them show signs of either oxidation or stripping after 30 years, so it looks like they may very well be stainless steel. I dont know how how long this Matrix Strada wheel has been sitting indoors, but over an equal amount of beach commuting these nipples have not deteriorated at all compared to the standard steel spokes on my cheapo Raleigh.

    Spokes are gone though. I guess the method of removal is to clamp them tight in a vice, by the spoke, and then unscrew the nipples at the head with a flathead.
    Time waits for no one

  15. #15
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    If the nipples can be salvaged with not too much effort, then the bike co-op will gladly take them, I am sure. But nipples are not so valuable that you should think twice about tossing the whole mess in the metal recycling if they don't come off easily. ANd they are not a universal fit - if you buy new spokes *which should come with new nipples* they likely will not work with the old nipples anyway.

    Going to any trouble to keep the nipples when you are throwing out the spokes is like dropping off an old a car at the junkyard and insisting on keeping the windshield.

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