Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-20-12, 07:07 AM   #1
richnmib
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Bikes: Cervelo P1, Felt F85, Redline Monocog
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tiagra vs 105

Is 2012 Tiagra beter than my 2000ish 105? Mainly the rear der. and shifters.
richnmib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 07:21 AM   #2
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 09:31 AM   #3
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd suggest not. As long as the old gear isn't shagged.

But I guess it depends on your criteria. I'm pretty sure there haven't been any advances in derailleur geometry since the slant parallelogram (the newer one might have bigger jockey wheels, which is a slight improvement), and the only change I'm aware of to STI aside from adding speeds is the redesign of the hidden-cable models, which Tiagra isn't one of.

It may prove in practice that the new shifters and the old derailleur are better, or vice versa - IMO you can't be sure until you try em.

I'd be amazed if the 105 gear wasn't at least lighter and better-looking.

Also, when it comes to crisp shifting, I've noticed many derailleurs have play, even from new, in the upper sprung pivot. I've fixed it a few times by putting a washer behind the circlip (on Shimano derailleurs I had to file a notch in side of the washer, on the Campy one I had to grind it thinner) with good results. Finding a way to add tension to the parallelogram spring is often well worth it too. Also, on Shimano derailleurs I piff the Centeron pulley (or you can just swap the pulleys, that should be 95% as good) - if you think about it, that lateral slop in the upper pulley is kinda like a dork disk - it detracts from a properly-adjusted machine.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 09:39 AM   #4
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,781
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
They both do the job.
but the chain , cassette and chainrings wear from use.

keep stuff clean and lubricated. Replace chains and etc when worn.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 02:20 PM   #5
oldbobcat
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Bikes: '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus
Posts: 2,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Apples and oranges. 2012 Tiagra shifters do 10-speed. 2000-ish 105 is 9.

If the old 105 shifters are nearing the end of their lives, I'd recommend new 10-speed Tiagra shifters, cassette, and chain in a heartbeat. Decent 9-speed shifters that aren't worn out are going the way of the brontosaurus. The old derailleurs are compatible and should keep going a few more years, though.
oldbobcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 02:38 PM   #6
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I'd suggest not. As long as the old gear isn't shagged.

But I guess it depends on your criteria. I'm pretty sure there haven't been any advances in derailleur geometry since the slant parallelogram (the newer one might have bigger jockey wheels, which is a slight improvement), and the only change I'm aware of to STI aside from adding speeds is the redesign of the hidden-cable models, which Tiagra isn't one of.

It may prove in practice that the new shifters and the old derailleur are better, or vice versa - IMO you can't be sure until you try em.

I'd be amazed if the 105 gear wasn't at least lighter and better-looking.

Also, when it comes to crisp shifting, I've noticed many derailleurs have play, even from new, in the upper sprung pivot. I've fixed it a few times by putting a washer behind the circlip (on Shimano derailleurs I had to file a notch in side of the washer, on the Campy one I had to grind it thinner) with good results. Finding a way to add tension to the parallelogram spring is often well worth it too. Also, on Shimano derailleurs I piff the Centeron pulley (or you can just swap the pulleys, that should be 95% as good) - if you think about it, that lateral slop in the upper pulley is kinda like a dork disk - it detracts from a properly-adjusted machine.
9sp 105 is real garbage when you compare it to 2012 10sp tiagra. The newer hardware shifts better, is lighter and looks modern. What more is needed?
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-12, 02:54 PM   #7
Igo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Henderson/Las Vegas NV
Bikes: Giant Defy 2
Posts: 1,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My new Defy had Tiagra. Fine machinery.
Igo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-12, 10:28 AM   #8
Puget Pounder
Wookie Jesus inspires me.
 
Puget Pounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
Apples and oranges. 2012 Tiagra shifters do 10-speed. 2000-ish 105 is 9.

If the old 105 shifters are nearing the end of their lives, I'd recommend new 10-speed Tiagra shifters, cassette, and chain in a heartbeat. Decent 9-speed shifters that aren't worn out are going the way of the brontosaurus. The old derailleurs are compatible and should keep going a few more years, though.
+1

Although you can still find plenty of 9s stuff in good condition.

Doesn't Shimano stuff trickle down? So 9s 105 had already become 9s Tiagra. Tiagra has since become 10 speed, so I suspect it'd be better, albeit marginally.
Puget Pounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 12:41 PM   #9
flashpoint145
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puget Pounder View Post
+1
Doesn't Shimano stuff trickle down? So 9s 105 had already become 9s Tiagra. Tiagra has since become 10 speed, so I suspect it'd be better, albeit marginally.
Bingo
flashpoint145 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:29 PM   #10
DCB0
Banned.
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Bikes: CCM Torino 76
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In my experieice, there are two issues to ocnsider with bicycle components - features and quality. While a lot of the features 'trickle down' from the higher groups to the lower ones, the quality does not. For instance, a set of 1993 7 speed Deore XT components is still better than a set of 2012 9 speed Deore components because the XT will have better materials and suffer more use and abuse before needing replacement (better quality), even though the Deore is 9 speed (more features).

However, the difference between 105 and Tiagra is very slight and a 105 derailleur with a bit of wear in the pivots will likely be a bit more fussy to set up and keep adjusted than a brand new Tiagra replacement.
When new they all work almost the same - you likely could not tell the difference between Tiagra and 105 or Ultegra when new. Even if you could discern a difference, it won't make a difference to the way the bike rides.

Unless your 105 stuff is damaged or totally worn out (the derailleurs - the shifters tend to not wear out so much as occaisionally and suddenly 'fail') then it can be set up to behave almost as well or as well as the Tiagra stuff. Newer != better.
If you have a working set of 105 components 'upgrading' to Tiagra will be a waste of money. New cables, chain, cassette, and possibly derailleur jockey wheels will make the bike work like new.
DCB0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 01:23 AM   #11
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
9sp 105 is real garbage when you compare it to 2012 10sp tiagra. The newer hardware shifts better, is lighter and looks modern. What more is needed?
I'm sure the crankset and BB are lighter, but what else has really changed, other than the addition of a cog and styling? (And speaking of looks, modern Shimano cranks are vile.)

There's the STI redesign (meh), but Tiagra still has exposed cables, amirite?

And derailleurs still have the same actuation ratio, which is barely sufficient for 8spd. All the tiny shifter refinements in the world aren't worth a damn next to increasing cable pull.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 AM.