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  1. #1
    Canadian Chick Aquakitty's Avatar
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    One cross wheels on a single speed Holdsworth Trike Conversion (Less torque issues?)

    I am restoring a 50ish year old Holdsworth trike conversion. If you don't have any clue what it is, here is an idea...

    Not my image, randomly found on interwebs, just to show what I am talking about.

    I was thinking about spoking the rear wheels on this with a 1x pattern. Why would I do this? The issue is, the old proprietary pawled hubs are 32h and small flanged. I am on a tight budget. I have a lot of bikes, and a '90's MTB acted as a wheel donor, so I have some rims for very cheap. These rims happen to have a super low profile with an ERD of 574. I wanted white spokes on the rims, but the size needed is 280mm, and these are hard to find for cheap as they usually have to be custom cut.

    Either I need to find rims with a smaller ERD or I could possibly lace these with a 1x pattern. Since the right and front wheel has no torque on it at all this should be ok.

    The drive side is one long axle, with the left wheel on one end press-fit to the hub, and a cog in the middle. Is there less force on this drive wheel so I could use a 1x pattern or would it be no different than normal direct-to-hub torque?

    Bottom line is, is a 1x pattern ok in this situation?

  2. #2
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    I think you have you sizing information incorrect...

    http://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

    Grab the spreadsheet...

    For the spokechart tab, input hole per side, crossings at the top, and rim diameter just below...play around with crossings see what you get for typical front flange hubs throughout the chart below - hubs with diameters of 36-40mm.

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  3. #3
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    There's nothing inherently better or worse about 1x wheels so if it's a Cinderella story and the spokes fit go ahead. However because the cross will be so close to the hub, you cannot interlace the spokes inner over outer as you normally would with 3x.

    There's another alternative that may also help. If you have 2 lengths handy which average the correct length, each being a few millimeters over or under, you can lace the wheel with all the longer spokes pulling, and the shorter ones "pushing". This puts a slight twist on the hub with respect to the rim, but if you stay within a few millimeters won't cause any issue in the wheel.
    FB
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    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  4. #4
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    I would love to get one of these or an actual racing trike. More Pics Please
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    I would love to get one of these or an actual racing trike. More Pics Please
    for a Binachi conversion?
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  6. #6
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I'd spoke the 1 driven wheel 3 cross, for torque windup, the other 2 wheels
    would probably be fine 1X.

    the 32 little short 1X spokes on my R-off Bike Friday got laced over each other .

    only brakes you have are on the front wheels.. make them good ones ..

    I've seen them setup with 2 brakes on the 1 wheel.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 05-21-12 at 09:56 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    As I've already stated, the OPs sizing information is wrong...hence my earlier suggestion to fiddle with a calculation tool. Also for the OP, custom cut straight guage stainless steel spokes can be had for as little as .34 apiece online before shipping.

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  8. #8
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
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    Having trued many 2-cross rear wheels on Fuji Newest 3.0s, I have to say that with low flange hubs, box section rims, and standard j-headed spokes, anything less than 3-cross, especially in the back, makes a pretty unstable wheel. Buy spokes and do it right.

  9. #9
    Canadian Chick Aquakitty's Avatar
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    Oh in case anyone is wondering why I need new rims, the old ones were chrome and not too bad rust-wise on the outside, but on the inside they must have had water sitting in them for years, the corrosion is severe, the rust has eaten through the wall in some places.

    And in case anyone is wondering why I am going so cheap, it's because I am doing this for someone who knows pretty much nothing about bikes. He thought this kit was just an old trike, and is planning to give it to someone as a present. Problem is he has a spending limit so I am trying to oblige while still giving him what he wants. I should perhaps explain again that these things are desirable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    I would love to get one of these or an actual racing trike. More Pics Please
    I will for sure once it is complete, right now it is waiting to be clear coated. The person I am doing this for is not big on racing bikes . If it were mine I would be going in a different direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    I'd spoke the 1 driven wheel 3 cross, for torque windup, the other 2 wheels
    would probably be fine 1X.

    the 32 little short 1X spokes on my R-off Bike Friday got laced over each other .

    only brakes you have are on the front wheels.. make them good ones ..

    I've seen them setup with 2 brakes on the 1 wheel.
    Yea I was considering a double brake set-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    As I've already stated, the OPs sizing information is wrong...hence my earlier suggestion to fiddle with a calculation tool. Also for the OP, custom cut straight guage stainless steel spokes can be had for as little as .34 apiece online before shipping.

    =8-)
    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    I think you have you sizing information incorrect...

    http://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

    Grab the spreadsheet...

    For the spokechart tab, input hole per side, crossings at the top, and rim diameter just below...play around with crossings see what you get for typical front flange hubs throughout the chart below - hubs with diameters of 36-40mm.

    =8-)
    I use EDD. The hubs have very small centre to right and left, so with a rim with an ERD of 574 the spokes need to be 279mm. I will certainly take your advice and remeasure, but the hubs are nearly flat. Anyways I have plenty of 260-ishmm spokes I can experiment with to see if I am wrong.


    I also realise I can get cheap silver SS spokes, but I want white or blue. Option #2 is painting the spokes.

  10. #10
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquakitty View Post
    Oh in case anyone is wondering why I need new rims, the old ones were chrome and not too bad rust-wise on the outside, but on the inside they must have had water sitting in them for years, the corrosion is severe, the rust has eaten through the wall in some places.

    And in case anyone is wondering why I am going so cheap, it's because I am doing this for someone who knows pretty much nothing about bikes. He thought this kit was just an old trike, and is planning to give it to someone as a present. Problem is he has a spending limit so I am trying to oblige while still giving him what he wants. I should perhaps explain again that these things are desirable.



    I will for sure once it is complete, right now it is waiting to be clear coated. The person I am doing this for is not big on racing bikes . If it were mine I would be going in a different direction.



    Yea I was considering a double brake set-up.





    I use EDD. The hubs have very small centre to right and left, so with a rim with an ERD of 574 the spokes need to be 279mm. I will certainly take your advice and remeasure, but the hubs are nearly flat. Anyways I have plenty of 260-ishmm spokes I can experiment with to see if I am wrong.


    I also realise I can get cheap silver SS spokes, but I want white or blue. Option #2 is painting the spokes.
    In your original post, you gave no indication of the length of spokes you currently have.

    Also, call Bicycle Express of San Jose, CA. See what they'll quote you on powder coat white, red, blue, pink, orange, green, or yellow 14g spokes cut to length.

    408-998-1618

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  11. #11
    Canadian Chick Aquakitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    In your original post, you gave no indication of the length of spokes you currently have.

    Also, call Bicycle Express of San Jose, CA. See what they'll quote you on powder coat white, red, blue, pink, orange, green, or yellow 14g spokes cut to length.

    408-998-1618

    =8-)
    Cool thanks will check it out.

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