diff

Hey,

The bike is a surly steamroller, came as a complete from surly.

Last week I had a new fork installed to get more steerer tube, and also swapped the headset at the same time. The LBS did the labor.

I am having trouble with the adjusting. But then again, not sure what is normal. There was a richey on here before and swapped stems at least 30 times and never had trouble adjusting it.

I have taken the chris king apart and regreased it and made sure everything was assembled right. I actually thought 1 of the orings were damaged, so that was why I took it apart.

In the manual, it says this...

What would some resistance feel like? It goes from silky smooth as I tighten, to just having a tad resistance when starting to turn the handlebars. But even at this point, the headset appears loose to me.

For chris king owners...

Also, there is a small gap between the griplock cap and the top bearing cup. This is normal of course, but the gap is smaller in the back. Is that normal? Doesn't seem normal. It should be perfectly aligned I would think? That was the reason I thought there may be a messed up o-ring and its the same before and after I took it apart.

On a properly adjusted chris king, if you turn your bars 90 degrees and rock the bike, should there be any movement? Even a mm or so?

I never paid attention with the previous headset, it was super easy to adjust. Just tighten until I felt a tad resistance, then back off 1/8 and was always perfect.

Thanks for any help.

ncfisherman

The gap between the top bearing cap and the upper cup should be even all the way around. That points to something being mis-aligned.

Just winging it, but a few things you may want to check...is the baseplate(crown race) fully seated? Is the starnut centered and set at 15mm depth? Are you using good quality stem/spacers? Kings seem to be a little more finicky when it comes to setup and everything needs to be precise for it to work properly. I've installed a few of the King Insets this year with the new griplock kit and have not had an issue.

There should not be any movement(play) in a properly adjusted headset. With King, you could go by the topcap torque spec., but it sounds like you'll have to address an alignment issue before you are able to properly adjust that HS.

3alarmer 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1

I hate trying to deagnose this stuff without at least some photos, but
your descriptions sound a lot like the headset cups are improperly seated.

This is an installation issue, not an adjustment issue.

diff

Thanks.

It was the stem. Was using a cheap kalloy that came with the bike actually. Now that I look at it, horrible design for mating against flat parts. When I looked closer at the pad washer, I could see the pressure was more on the back as there were no light that can be seen when hold a light behind it, when in the front you can clearly see the gap. Another thing I forgot to mention is after tightening the stem bolts the issue would aggravate itself. I don't have a torque wrench, but definitely wasn't cranking on them. Just one bolt a little at a time rotating, until pretty snug.

So I guess it was a combination of the stem not being aligned properly, and then once it was locked down, only made it worse.

Swapped the stem with a velo orange stem. Definitely has a flatter surface. (Still experimenting, so have avoided dropping big money on a stem that might not be right for me, so have a few super cheap stems).

Everything is lining up pretty good now. Not going to even bother running the bike with this stem. Will be getting a higher quality stem. But I got it perfectly adjusted and no binding. Just glad nothing is damaged, as I did ride about 8 miles as it was previously, but if anything the headset was too loose. At least I hope it's still good, will eventually find out.

The spacers look pretty dodgy also when I look at them. These are the spacers I am using..

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=22618

I know chris king makes spacers. Is it worth it to buy them? Want black, so it wouldn't be for the colors, just a good set of spacers that are perfectly parallel is what I would expect. Any other recommendations for spacers?

Thanks.

Leebo

Headtube faced?

ncfisherman

Glad that you got it sorted out. Sounds like the stem you are using will work fine, if you were able to get the headset adjusted properly. I doubt you damaged the headset, since Kings are built pretty tough. The spacer you have are probably accurate enough, but King spacers are dead on perfect.

diff

I am not sure if it is faced. It was a complete from surly. I don't how the bike comes from surly with the headset cups pressed in or not. I think they do, so surly probably does face them when assembling.

I also tried a civia stem today. That stem is garbage also. This one puts pressure in the front. The 2 velo orange stems I have both work fine. I will never buy a cheap stem again.

But thanks again for the help. Even though I thought it was odd that tightening down the stem would only make the situation worse, I wasn't smart enough to try another stem. Once you mentioned good quality stem, I knew I was in trouble

Thanks.

diff

Alright, so I ended getting a thomson stem, and chris king spacers. Can get the headset tightened perfectly. But when listening very closely, would hear a slight gritty sound when moving the handlebars back and forth. Wasn't consistent.

So took it all apart. The headtube was nasty. Wiped all the grease from everything, cleaned steerer tube. Put it back together and only placed the slightest amount of grease on the bearing surface top and bottom. Put it back together and no grinding at all. Even over tightening a bit purposely no gritty sound.

So guessing it was the steerer tube rotating back and forth in the headtube with all the nastiness.

My question is how much grease do I use? The instructions say "slight bead". Does that mean like a spaghetti noodle around the bearing?

Also, I didn't grease the inside of the bearings that contact the steerer tube. Not sure about this. Chris king directions don't mention anything about this and park tools site says says not to grease steering column. No grease makes sense, but then again it might help against anything from getting in there. And once the steerer goes through the bottom cup, it will smear grease all over the steerer..

Appreciate any help.

ncfisherman

Typically with a CK bearing, you would lay down a bead of grease 3/4 of the way around the bearing, then rotate the bearing to distribute the grease - of course after removing the snap ring and rubber seal. You don't have to overdo it - it takes a very small amount of grease.

No need to grease the inside of the cups/bearings. Any grease you get on to the steerer should be cleaned up with a little rubbing alcohol.

HillRider

The CK cartridge bearings are internally grease filled at the factory and have seals that snap into them to protect the internals so any grease you add externally is just to act as a dirt and water seal to prevent corrosion of the bearing's outside. You don't need much but if you overdo it, the excess should just extrude out. Messy but not damaging.

diff

Thanks again.

diff

So I went ahead and regrease it and everything. Also, since I recently got a torque wrench, decided to see what the stated torque would set it to.

15 inch pounds.

It basically pulled the star nut back up through the steerer. 15 inch pounds is quite a bit for a headset adjustment. It just kept turning, then I heard a skip and thought it may have been the top cap. Then heard it again and realized by the sound and drop in torque the starnut was moving. Opened it up and was coming out if the tube.

Just knocked it back down. Luckily I was able to adjust it by hand. How would such a small amount of torque pull up the star nut? I thought by design these can't go up?

EDIT: Never mind. More googling revealed that

Chris King recommends 4-10 inch-pounds with a maximum of 15 inch-pounds so that's range of almost 4:1.

Really wish they would change their instruction manual. 15 pounds is crazy. Also see that you can pull them out with enough torque, all though they will most likely break 1st.

Even though this headset swap was a severe pita, learned a lot. Now time to ride it. Only have 2 - 3 hours on this headset since was paranoid to ride it. Thanks again for all the help in this thread.

JohnDThompson 

The resistance referred to in the manual is seal drag, and should be constant throughout the rotation of the headset. If it varies, as you seem to describe, that is an indication that the cups are not seated in alignment. This could be a result of not being pressed in properly, or that the head tube and fork crown faces need to be milled. That you see a gap suggests the former, but does not exclude the latter.

diff

That part was resolved (the gap, or uneven spacing around the top cap) and was because of the generic kalloy stem that was on the bike. Have since replaced with a proper stem and spacers and the gap is equal all the way around and that took care of just about everything.

Everything is good now. I do feel the slightest resistance when the bars are stopped and I start to turn (when in a bike stand, bike in the air, etc). But gravity is enough to move them. Like if I stand the bike up on its back wheel with the seat pointed at the sky. Just the slightest nudge will make them fall in either direction.

And tight enough that it feels solid when hitting bumps and curbs.

So just need to ride it now and see what happens. Going to be interesting to see how long it stays adjusted like this.

HillRider

If you torqued the stem's pinch bolts adequately, it should stay in adjustment until you intentionally remove the stem and/or fork.