Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-22-12, 02:11 PM   #1
dantolen
Member
Thread Starter
 
dantolen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is it possible to have a 12 x 12 speed? (144 speed)

12 chain rings on the back and an identical 12 on the front. Is this somehow possible? Wonder how it would ride.
dantolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:20 PM   #2
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,152
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1132 Post(s)
Had a 3 cubed 27 speed bike in 1962, 3 speed hub, 3 cog cluster, triple crank.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:24 PM   #3
Tuc
collector
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tucson, Arizona USA
Bikes:
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a 30 speed now, 10 on the back, three in the front - but 144 would require two rear derailleurs to be used. sounds like an accident in the machine shop to put my feet anywhere near that much metal.
Tuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:27 PM   #4
nrowensby
Senior Member
 
nrowensby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Bikes: 2009 Specialized Allez Compact
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nrowensby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:30 PM   #5
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Well, a 14-speed Rohloff IGH used with a triple crank and a 7-speed cassette will give 294 possible combinations if you are enthralled by large numbers. But, as asked above "Why"?
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 02:39 PM   #6
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 03:28 PM   #7
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anything's possible.
UnsafeAlpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 05:50 PM   #8
GeoKrpan
George Krpan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westlake Village, California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Nuvinci, unlimited gear ratios.
GeoKrpan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 06:56 PM   #9
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,949
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
http://www.canosoarus.com/08LSRbicycle/LSR%20Bike02.htm if ya wanna go fast!
davidad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 07:04 PM   #10
ThermionicScott 
Gratuitous glib and snark
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)
Posts: 14,108
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Think of trying to pedal a bike that has 9 more chainrings between your legs. It's easy enough to buy or build a bike that has unusable/unnecessary gears at each end of the range.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 07:08 PM   #11
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Bikes: See my sig...
Posts: 27,264
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrowensby View Post
This.

One could build it but the redundancy and overlap would make shifting a nightmare and the effective range of gearing that a human being can turn is very small.
Sixty Fiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 07:42 PM   #12
Flying Merkel
Senior Member
 
Flying Merkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Costa Mesa CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Why? Sheldon Brown's 63 speed bike.

It's an interesting project. Impractical, but fun to think about.
Flying Merkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 08:02 PM   #13
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, if you have to haul 1t of cargo on a bike, then 144sp could be quite desirable.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 08:17 PM   #14
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 6,059
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
My Quetzal recumbent came with 105 combinations. Triple crank, 5 speed mid drive, 7 speed cluster on the back. I converted it to a Rohloff with a single chain ring. Still have 5 cogs on the mid drive, but no means to shift them other than by hand. All but one of the mid drive cogs put the input ratio lower than that stipulated by Rohloff, so they are just there to take up space on the freewheel.
Guess you could say it is technically a 70 speed though.
__________________
Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


WANTED: Dead or broken gearhubs for failure analysis.

Like the shop
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 09:59 PM   #15
Myosmith
Lover of Old Chrome Moly
 
Myosmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Minnesota
Bikes:
Posts: 2,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Myosmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 10:53 PM   #16
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,152
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1132 Post(s)
A friends dad same early 60's fixed up 2_3 speeds, one had 2 sprockets,
one on the hubshell . 2 chain loops..

clever machining could run 2 CV nuVinci hubs 1 driving the other, to widen the range..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-12, 11:52 PM   #17
RaleighSport 
Hogosha Sekai
 
RaleighSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STS
Bikes: Leader 725, Centurion Turbo, Scwhinn Tempo, Schwinn Premis, GT Tequesta, Bridgestone CB-2,72' Centurion Lemans
Posts: 6,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
That's what came to mind for me to.

Edit: Just remembered.. do it old school. 63 speed yo. http://sheldonbrown.com/org/otb.html
__________________
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Last edited by RaleighSport; 05-22-12 at 11:57 PM.
RaleighSport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 06:02 AM   #18
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Posts: 4,874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
Hey, if you have to haul 1t of cargo on a bike, then 144sp could be quite desirable.
More ratios does not mean more range. It would be interesting to see how many of the gear combinations overlap and how many are truly unique.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 06:16 AM   #19
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Bikes:
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Just convert to a 1/4 inch pitch chain, instead of the current 1/2 inch chain.

Then you can put 20 cogs on the back.

Sheldon Brown's Nanodrive system.

(Sheldon seems to have all the answers in this thread!)
rm -rf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 07:17 AM   #20
paulkal
Senior Member
 
paulkal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Holland
Bikes: 2007 Nagasawa with C-Record, 1992 Duell with Croce D'aune/Chorus, three Gazelles, M5 recumbent
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
Don't forget to add a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear to double number of the gears
paulkal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 08:33 AM   #21
byte_speed
Roadkill
 
byte_speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Tennessee
Bikes: 2002 Lightspeed Classic; 2010 Pedalforce RS
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why?

The cross-chaining possibilities would be endless.

But, the trim mechanism might need some thought.
byte_speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-12, 09:23 AM   #22
bluefoxicy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore, MD
Bikes: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
The Megarange jump in the back is useful for those ridiculous hills that you're not going to climb on normal gears. You don't need to handle the range of crap nobody is going to climb with 5 or 6 mostly worthless cogs; put one big one there.

You know what would be even more interesting is a bike CVT. It's doable....
bluefoxicy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-12, 09:52 PM   #23
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It would be gross.
LarDasse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-12, 11:49 PM   #24
ThermionicScott 
Gratuitous glib and snark
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)
Posts: 14,108
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Heh, for some reason, I thought you were younger than that.

For what it's worth, I think Schwinn's 5-speeds gave enough range for most people (39-90 GI, roughly). But the jumps between gears would be hard to sell these days.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-12, 07:25 AM   #25
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Well, we have a lot of bikes with absurdly high top gears. How many non-pro riders can make any real use of a 53x11 (or even a 50x12) high gear yet they are so common as to be nearly unavoidable on a newer road bike. "Absurdly low" low gears (<25 gear-inches) are another case as they do have their place on loaded touring and true off-road MTB riding.

From a historical perspective, every time an additional cog was added, there were those who loudly proclaimed it wasn't needed, the wheels would collapse, the chains would break, durability had gone out the window, etc. until they got used to N+1 only to repeat themselves the next time it happened. I've ridden 5,6,7,8,9 and 10-speed freewheels/cassettes and double and triple cranks over the past nearly 30 years and each increase brough some advantages and very few problems. There has to be a limit but I'm not ready to say where it is.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 AM.