Spoke hole leeway
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Spoke hole leeway
I am building up a front wheel, trying to make it as tough as possible. Weight isnt to much of a concern really. Anyways I picked up a deep v rim 48 h and a high flange surly new hub. The spoke holes are 2.4mm and I was looking at using dt swiss alpine iii but they require at least 2.5mm hole. Is that .1 to much for the spoke bend to fit around or can i squeeze them in?
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"The spoke holes are 2.4mm ... they require at least 2.5mm hole." You might be able to squeeze them in but I'd guess that there is a sound reason the manufacturer gives a minimum hole diameter. Squeezing them in might induce unforseen stresses in the spokes or hub. Your 48 spoke wheel might not be so tough anymore if there was a catastrophic failure due to stresses things weren't designed for.
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oh well...
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Is there any need for the extra strength of the Alpine III spokes on a 48H front wheel? Standard 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spokes will be way more than strong enough without the flange hole mismatch.
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The time where the odds are highest that a 2.3 mm elbow will actually be an improvement is when it improves the fit at the hub flange.
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Oh well I will just do a radial lace, on another note is there a web or program based application for generating lacing patterns?
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Drill out the flange holes. .05mm per side of the hole shouldn't significantly weaken the flanges. Of course, it depends on the hub. Now, if the hub is anodized black, I would be hesitant, but only for cosmetic reasons. 0.05mm is 0.0019 inches. The hub won't even notice that material is missing.
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According to https://www.dtswiss.com/getdoc/71f384...Datasheet.aspx
Diameter of threads is 2.3mm and diameter of elbow end is 2.34mm.
So you are good to go as-is...whether you use Alpine III's or generic 13/14g spokes.
Only concern is the elbow size of 7.8mm....but even then not a deal killer.
2.34mm of stainless steel for a non-electric / non-motor wheels is a lot of beef.
=8-)
Diameter of threads is 2.3mm and diameter of elbow end is 2.34mm.
So you are good to go as-is...whether you use Alpine III's or generic 13/14g spokes.
Only concern is the elbow size of 7.8mm....but even then not a deal killer.
2.34mm of stainless steel for a non-electric / non-motor wheels is a lot of beef.
=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Drill out the flange holes. .05mm per side of the hole shouldn't significantly weaken the flanges. Of course, it depends on the hub. Now, if the hub is anodized black, I would be hesitant, but only for cosmetic reasons. 0.05mm is 0.0019 inches. The hub won't even notice that material is missing.
THe hub I have is black so yeah not going to mess with it.
Polo, after a 5 hour day of it one of my wheels will be slightly out of wack. Though I am sort of anal about it, as in I notice it, others might and just blow it off..
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A few points.
The spoke hole size has to be a bit bigger than the spoke at the elbow to allow the bend to clear as the spoke is inserted. I believe the OD of your spoke is nearer to 2.3 than 2.4 so there's no risk of flange stress from an oversize spoke, though you may have to "pop" the bend through.
As to strength. The shear strenght of steels is roughly 80% of the tensile, which is why butted spokes were invented in the first place. Operating on the theory of a chain being only as strong as it's weakest link, you need roughly 25% more material in the elbow as elsewhere in the spoke. A similar issue happens at the thread, which is why most spokes are butted at both ends.
There's no issue, of stress damage during the forming process. Steel is very ductile, and spoke makers know how to form ends without weakening.
So yes, you probably can use the heavier spokes if you want. The real question is whether you should.
It's very easy to have too much spoke for the rim, resulting in wheels that though seeming stronger in theory, are actually weaker in practice. I occasionally use 13/14g spokes on the right rear for very heavy riders, and tandems, but that's with only 32H spokes. Adding 33% more spoke by going to 48h, is comparable to using heavier spokes, but there's no way I'd ever consider doing both.
The spoke hole size has to be a bit bigger than the spoke at the elbow to allow the bend to clear as the spoke is inserted. I believe the OD of your spoke is nearer to 2.3 than 2.4 so there's no risk of flange stress from an oversize spoke, though you may have to "pop" the bend through.
As to strength. The shear strenght of steels is roughly 80% of the tensile, which is why butted spokes were invented in the first place. Operating on the theory of a chain being only as strong as it's weakest link, you need roughly 25% more material in the elbow as elsewhere in the spoke. A similar issue happens at the thread, which is why most spokes are butted at both ends.
There's no issue, of stress damage during the forming process. Steel is very ductile, and spoke makers know how to form ends without weakening.
So yes, you probably can use the heavier spokes if you want. The real question is whether you should.
It's very easy to have too much spoke for the rim, resulting in wheels that though seeming stronger in theory, are actually weaker in practice. I occasionally use 13/14g spokes on the right rear for very heavy riders, and tandems, but that's with only 32H spokes. Adding 33% more spoke by going to 48h, is comparable to using heavier spokes, but there's no way I'd ever consider doing both.
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Yeah I am starting to agree with you, the more I read from other sources and here the more I am fine with the DT swiss Champions I got. Also I would think that using the alpines would make the rim much more rigid, I believe some flex might be a good thing.
This will be the second wheel I have built, the first one I built came out properly and has been serving me well. The fundamentals all make sense to me, in fact building it came rather quickly to me.
This will be the second wheel I have built, the first one I built came out properly and has been serving me well. The fundamentals all make sense to me, in fact building it came rather quickly to me.
Last edited by Binxsy; 05-28-12 at 01:52 PM.
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