Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-02-12, 10:33 PM   #1
SKeown
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Derailleur hanger destroyed

Please help! I have a 1994 Campy Veloce equipped Trek 2200. Today I shifted the chain off the outside of the freewheel, destroyed the derailleur and ripped the bottom out of the hanger hole. Unfortunately the corbon w/aluminum dropout frame wasn't designed with replaceable hangers. What's the fix for a situation like this?

Thanks, SKeown
SKeown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 10:39 PM   #2
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I thought most treks had replaceable hangers. There are several bolt on hanger options but most of these are intended for temporary repair. Throw up some pics so we can see that you have to work with. There are a few options you may be able to take pending the total damage.

Have you talked to your trek dealer? They may offer you a discount on a replacement frame.
thirdgenbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 10:45 PM   #3
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Royal, Jeunet 620, 59 Crown Royal, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage.
Posts: 5,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
There really isn't a good fix I know of for this other than a new different frame. Good news is you can pick up some pretty nice early 90's framesets pretty cheap a $100 or less if you shop around. The other cheapo short term fix is to sort straiten stuff out and attach a Suntour claw hanger to what you have and attach your DR to it.
zukahn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 11:09 PM   #4
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
The other cheapo short term fix is to sort straiten stuff out and attach a Suntour claw hanger to what you have and attach your DR to it.
Why would it be a 'short term' fix? That's what many millions of bikes came with originally - and what's been on our tandem for the last 47 years.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 11:15 PM   #5
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Why would it be a 'short term' fix? That's what many millions of bikes came with originally - and what's been on our tandem for the last 47 years.
Traditional semi-horizontal dropouts have enough room to bolt a claw on with an auxiliary bolt. This will keep the RD in place when the wheel is out. A bike with modern vertical dropouts might be combersome. I'm not saing it won't work, I am saying we need to see it before we can pass judgement.

Edit:
Alloy dropouts are also thicker than steel. This thickness combined with modern 8+ speed cassettes will likely prevent a claw mounted RD from from reaching all of the cogs.

Last edited by thirdgenbird; 08-02-12 at 11:27 PM.
thirdgenbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 11:37 PM   #6
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Royal, Jeunet 620, 59 Crown Royal, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage.
Posts: 5,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Why would it be a 'short term' fix? That's what many millions of bikes came with originally - and what's been on our tandem for the last 47 years.
Because with shorther semi horizontal or maybe veritcals it will be awkward and require one to reset adjust stuff every time the wheel is removed, even with bikes made for claws they can be a bit awkard difficult and while made workable pretty much everything on the rear drivetrain will be slightly off not quit right.

Last edited by zukahn1; 08-02-12 at 11:48 PM.
zukahn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-12, 11:37 PM   #7
SKeown
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
I thought most treks had replaceable hangers. There are several bolt on hanger options but most of these are intended for temporary repair. Throw up some pics so we can see that you have to work with. There are a few options you may be able to take pending the total damage.

Have you talked to your trek dealer? They may offer you a discount on a replacement frame.
I'm not any good at posting pictures, but the damage consists of the bottom half of the derailleur's bolt hole is broken off, that's the only damage to the frame. BTW, this frame has vertical droupouts, which likely complicates things as for adapting something like the Suntour Claw. I can send pictures to an address, but don't know how to post here.

Thanks, Steve
SKeown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:02 AM   #8
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKeown View Post
I'm not any good at posting pictures, but the damage consists of the bottom half of the derailleur's bolt hole is broken off, that's the only damage to the frame. BTW, this frame has vertical droupouts, which likely complicates things as for adapting something like the Suntour Claw. I can send pictures to an address, but don't know how to post here.
You could either insert a picture directly by clicking on the little picture icon above the REPLY window or you can upload the picture to a website like www.webshots.com and then create a link to it here. I don't think the specific Suntour claw part would work directly, but it seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to fabricate something similar out of aluminum stock that would - just reshaped for the vertical dropout. It would also be good if the dropout has space for a hole to be drilled and tapped so that the claw would be bolted to the frame independent of the wheel so it wouldn't come loose when the wheel is removed.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:02 AM   #9
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Royal, Jeunet 620, 59 Crown Royal, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage.
Posts: 5,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
This is why as first mentioned you should start shopping for a framset or maybe even better a donor bike something similar to your bike it can be rough as hell beat up and ugly but if it has good framset similar to yours thats all you need. Flat tires iffy wheels hasne't been worked on in 20 years missing parts all the better you get it cheap all you want is the frameset.

Last edited by zukahn1; 08-03-12 at 12:09 AM.
zukahn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:08 AM   #10
xenologer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 2,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
you need this:

http://problemsolversbike.com/produc...illeur_hanger/

skewer mounted derailer hanger
might not get the full cassete range back; depends on your derailer


ultimately the frame is probably dead though unless you have a framebuilder replace the whole dropout lug, maybe with one that has replacable hangers....


alternatly, you can buy an expensive eccentric bottom bracket to enable singlespeed/IGH drivetrain, but that's getting silly...

Last edited by xenologer; 08-03-12 at 12:12 AM.
xenologer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:31 AM   #11
SKeown
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That wasn't hard. When I said the only damage was to the bolt hole, the finish caught it too. Anyway, notice I do have the broken off piece (lower right of blown up derailleur.) One additional question, is a Athena or Chorus 8 speed derailleur a suitable alternative to the Veloce?

Attached Images
File Type: jpg ebay1 277.jpg (45.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg ebay1 274.jpg (53.4 KB, 26 views)
SKeown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:40 AM   #12
jimc101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Bikes:
Posts: 4,814
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Unless you are the original owner of the frame, and are covered by the lifetime warranty, does it matter what mechs are compatible, as that frame looks to be a write off; having the bolt hole broken like that is a harder fix than the whole hanger.

From the look of the damage, it would be hard to fix the mech hanger, even changing to a fixed / singlespeed won't be that easy, as the frame has vertical, not horizontal dropouts; although is is doable.

For 8 speed Campag, Athena, Chorus and Veloce are all interchangable, getting them could be another issue, as none have been produced for about 15 years.
jimc101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:51 AM   #13
SKeown
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, the broken off piece fits back one like a piece to a puzzle, I could have it heliarch tacked back together. I was hoping someone knew of a miracle cure, wishfull thinking I guess. I have drag raced the same car for 44 years, so having stuff repaired or made is a way of life.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AMX-Wheelie.jpg (82.1 KB, 4 views)
SKeown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:57 AM   #14
Drew Eckhardt
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKeown View Post
That wasn't hard. When I said the only damage was to the bolt hole, the finish caught it too. Anyway, notice I do have the broken off piece (lower right of blown up derailleur.) One additional question, is a Athena or Chorus 8 speed derailleur a suitable alternative to the Veloce?
Yes.
Drew Eckhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 06:24 AM   #15
jolly_ross
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenologer View Post
xenologer this is fantastic!

I find myself as unofficial mechanic for touring with friends - often with bikes stripped for airline bikebags. I shall carry one of these from now on. Thx.

Good luck to the OP.
jolly_ross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 06:24 AM   #16
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,917
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKeown View Post
Actually, the broken off piece fits back one like a piece to a puzzle, I could have it heliarch tacked back together.
That frame is carbon tubes bonded (read glued) to aluminum lugs and dropouts. I don't think even a heliarc repair could be done without overheating and distroying the bond between the rear dropout and the stays. If you think you could keep the heat away from the bonds, then heliarcing the broken pieces back together followed by retapping the threads is about your only alternative.

BTW, those frames are relatively common. A few failed due to debonding but most seem to last forever, and your 8-speed Campy version was a relative rarity. Trek wanted to break Shimano's monopoly on build kits and contracted with Campy to supply the drivetrains for this model. Campy was not used to dealing with a large OEM market and sent the parts packaged in individual retail boxes instead bubble rapped in bins. Trek went nuts assembling the bikes and gave up about half way through the model year so you find both Campy and Shimano builds for the same model and year. I once saw two of these side by side in an LBS in Houston, one Campy and one Shimano.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 08:02 AM   #17
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Posts: 19,857
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKeown View Post
Actually, the broken off piece fits back one like a piece to a puzzle,
I'm not sure if there's enough contact area to get a good weld, but it's worth a try. You need an experienced aluminum tig welder ... possibly a motorcycle guy or precision machine shop. Since the derailleur bolt probably does not extend through the hole, perhaps a reinforcing plate could be welded on the back side of the hanger.

I wouldn't worry too much about overheating. If it's tacked in place, and welded in steps with cooling time in between, it should be ok.

Another option which I did on my old Cannondale is to cot off the remaining mount hole, then get a section of dropout with a complete mounting hole & weld it to your remaining dropout. You'll get more surface area with a clean cut. In my case I had access to a Cannondale spare dropout so it was an easy match.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

Last edited by Homebrew01; 08-03-12 at 08:05 AM.
Homebrew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 10:09 AM   #18
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,529
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Cut off any remnant of the hanger and use a bolt-on steel claw hanger:

JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 10:49 AM   #19
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,878
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Give Calfee a call and see if they can help you. If anyone can repair CF, it's them.

Chombi
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 11:05 AM   #20
jimc101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Bikes:
Posts: 4,814
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Give Calfee a call and see if they can help you. If anyone can repair CF, it's them.
The problem with that is, it's the Alu part (lug) which has broken, not the Carbon so not sure that Calfee could do anything in this case.

From the picture, it is going to be hard to fix, guessing an experience / precision welder like Homebrew01 has suggested may be able to do it, but the cost may out weigh the cost of replacement.

the OP hasn't mentioned if they are the original owner, if they are, Trek normally do a lifetime warranty, so that would cover it in that case.
jimc101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 11:06 AM   #21
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 7,906
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Trek won't cover that under the frame warranty, it was mechanical malfunction that damaged the frame not the frame damaging itself due to failed workmanship.

I like the universal replaceable dropout idea, I would start with that because it's far cheaper then Calfee, then if that fails consider Calfee but also consider the cost to see if it's worth it to you to fix it or simply replace the frame. With Calfee you have to pay shipping both ways, a $50 checking fee, and whatever the cost plus painting will run, plus removal and replacement of all parts and the fork before and after repair...assuming you can't do that yourself. Last time I checked the minimal repair by itself was $250, but it may have gone up, plus depending on damage it could cost more then the minimum. Basically you could easily have $500 not including removal and replace of all the components and fork by an LBS, for $999 you could get a brand new Motobecane Titanium road frame with a 100 year warranty and with carbon fork from Bikes Direct...as an option of course. And that TI bike comes with a replaceable dropout so if a mechanical failure like yours happened to it, the dropout would sacrifice itself to protect the frame and you simply by another one and screw it in.
rekmeyata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-12, 12:39 PM   #22
SKeown
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I believe getting an alloy replacement hanger that can be cut and spliced by cutting the old hanger off about 3/8" above the bolt hole. That way the new hole can be precisely located. If i provide a trough on one side for that bead, then once attached and cooled, I can then provide a trough at the juncture on the other side. At that point I'll have a nice small weld bead on both sides at the splice. I like the bike, my short legs to torso length needs a 5 cm longer top than seat tube, they aren't that easily found.

Thanks for everyone's input, SKeown
SKeown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 PM.