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Axle spacers or offset rear wheel?

Old 08-07-12, 09:00 AM
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Axle spacers or offset rear wheel?

Hey gang,

I replaced a 7 speed freewheel with an 8 speed one and had to put an axle spacer on the freewheel side to keep it from rubbing against the dropout and now the wheel is offset to the left a little.

Is it better to have the wheel offset and have the hub properly rest in the dropout on the non-freewheel side, or should I find another spacer to have the wheel centered in the frame?

The offset is looks to be about 3mm.

Thanks!
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Old 08-07-12, 09:17 AM
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First, redo the drive side spacing such that the distance from the freewheel stop to the end of the lock nut is 40.5mm. 41mm is okay.

Then, finish off the non-drive spacing so that you have an OLD of 134-136mm. (This is assuming your rear spacing is supposed to be 135mm).

Then re-dish the rear wheel - i.e., center the rim between the ends of the lock using a dishing tool to check...

=8-)
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Old 08-07-12, 10:01 AM
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Thanks... I'm not sure what OLD stands for, also the rear spacing isn't 135, it's 126.
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Old 08-07-12, 10:28 AM
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Stuffing #8 cog in a 7 speed frame requires more dishing , greater tension imbalance..
much better to spread the frame dropouts, so hubshell centerline is moved rightward.
not leftward..
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Old 08-07-12, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowCrank
Thanks... I'm not sure what OLD stands for, also the rear spacing isn't 135, it's 126.
You are trying to stick an 8 speed freewheel on a 126mm setup?

Do you have any idea just how much worse you've made the asymmetry of the rear wheel?

Commonly rear 126mm 6/7 speed offsets are:

36 non-drive
20 drive side

Now you've probably made it:

40 non-drive
16 drive side

It you are going to stick with your new setup, I strongly recommend cold-setting your rear to 130mm.

...and then add a 4mm spacer to the non-drive side of the hub along with a longer axle to create a 130mm rear hub.

This way you can bring the non-drive side offset back down to around 36mm...

Otherwise you are going to have very loose non-drive tension (much like some old Maillard wheels) and increase the risk of non-drive spoke breakage at the heads.

=8-)
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Old 08-07-12, 10:48 AM
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Le sigh, OK... thanks for the pointers... It's starting to sound like I've bitten off more than I can chew.
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Old 08-07-12, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowCrank
Thanks... I'm not sure what OLD stands.
Over Locknut Dimension.

It's the distance between the outside edges of your hubs two locknuts. In a perfect world it should also match your bike frame's dropout spaceing.
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Old 08-08-12, 05:59 PM
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As mentioned, the result is a wheel that isn't what we'd call "good".
However, if you aren't too heavy and are somewhat easy on the wheel, it can still work.
I've stuffed a 9 speed into my 126MM spaced RockHopper and use it.
However, I only use it on smooth pavement and avoid driveway lips etc. in any manner that gives a severe "jolt".

What you want to do is use the LEAST amount of spacer possible on the DS.
Add as much spacer on the NDS as possible that will still allow you to force the wheel between the dropouts.
IF you can find lock nuts with the "beveled" corners, that helps.

Your Free Wheel won't be a standard distance from the drop out, so you won't be able to swap a wheel in and have the RDER line up properly, since it has to be set to utilize a different area of travel. Ditto about swapping your "custom" wheel into another bike.

Another draw back of your conversion is that the axle is even more likely to bend, since the unsupported distance between the bearings & frame is even greater. Not good if you are a "hefty" rider or hit pot holes.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 08-08-12 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 08-08-12, 07:18 PM
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have a missing ratio of gears that makes #8 so important.?

Or, just get an Alfine Internal 8speed hub instead .. that builds into a less dished wheel
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Old 02-20-13, 11:18 AM
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I would like to ask the same question as the OP in order to recycle a found on the shelf wheel that is in really great shape (like new)..

Hub is a Shimano HF-05 (without the drumbrake threading often seen on these)
Cassette is 7-Speed Shimano
OLD is 135mm
Axle is Q/R

Desired change is to replace the current 7spd cassette with a:

New SRAM 11-34 9spd cassette

I have all the other bits on the shelf to shift it, etc.

So the question is what do I need to do to the wheel and how best to do it?

Thanks in advance for any assist

/K
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Old 02-20-13, 12:59 PM
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Frame dropouts spread for the 135 wide axle?.. or what?
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Old 02-20-13, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowCrank
Thanks... I'm not sure what OLD stands for, also the rear spacing isn't 135, it's 126.
I suspect that regardless of what you do, you're going to have problems stuffing an 8-speed wheel into a 126mm spaced frame. If the frame is steel, you can spread the stays to accommodate the wider hub, but if it's aluminum or carbon fiber I doubt that there is an easy fix for you.
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Old 02-20-13, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ksisler
I would like to ask the same question as the OP in order to recycle a found on the shelf wheel that is in really great shape (like new)..

Hub is a Shimano HF-05 (without the drumbrake threading often seen on these)
Cassette is 7-Speed Shimano
OLD is 135mm
Axle is Q/R

Desired change is to replace the current 7spd cassette with a:

New SRAM 11-34 9spd cassette

I have all the other bits on the shelf to shift it, etc.

So the question is what do I need to do to the wheel and how best to do it?

Thanks in advance for any assist

/K
That probably has a 7 speed Free Hub body which is too short for cassettes with >7 speeds.
Isn't it also spaced for 145MM?
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Old 02-20-13, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
That probably has a 7 speed Free Hub body which is too short for cassettes with >7 speeds. Isn't it also spaced for 145MM?
I haven't taken the current 7spd cassette off yet to see what is underneath. Should have it off in a day or two (my chain whip was "borrowed" so new one on its way yesterday.

Another poster suggested the wheel might already be 9spd (due to the large OLN) but with a 7spd cassette installed, but with a spacer behind the current cassette to space it out? It does look like there is about 3/16" or 1/4" of black metal showing behind the cassette up against the alloy of the hub when I was expecting to see about 1/16" lip of the body. And there is plenty of space between the big sprocket and the spokes and also between the little sprocket and the dropout. Thus it just might be already a 9spd read hub. It would be good luck landing on me...would be a welcomed change.

The wheel is cleanly 135mm OLN. The frame I want to put the revised wheel into was factory 135mm, not a stretched or bent into 135mm.

/Just another day or two!
/K
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Old 02-20-13, 11:17 PM
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To determine if freehub is 7 or 8/9/10 is easy:

Using calipers, or quality ruler....measure spline stop to outside of the locknut.

40.5-41mm = 8/9/10 speed
39.00mm = 7 speed
36-37mm = 6/7 speed (pretty old really)

--\ <---- measure ---->
-------------------
..........................|
..........................|---|
..........................|....|XX
..........................|....|XX
..........................|---|
..........................|
-------------------
--/

=8-)
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Last edited by mrrabbit; 02-20-13 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 02-25-13, 08:50 AM
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Please ignore, as the previous post answered this... I just didn't see it in time...

Originally Posted by mrrabbit
First, redo the drive side spacing such that the distance from the freewheel stop to the end of the lock nut is 40.5mm. 41mm is okay. Then, finish off the non-drive spacing so that you have an OLD of 134-136mm. (This is assuming your rear spacing is supposed to be 135mm). Then re-dish the rear wheel - i.e., center the rim between the ends of the lock using a dishing tool to check... =8-)
Mr R; I don't think I have seen that spec before... Seems like it would be useful to a lot of folks posting here.

Could you also provide that spec for the other variations? I am thinking about a formerly 7spd Shimano hub wanting a SRAM 11-34 9speed cassette, as that is my current issue at hand (apologies for being self-centerer), but the spec for any or everything you happen to have knowledge of would likely be very welcome.

Thanks (and apologies for being so tardy in reading this thread).
/K

Last edited by ksisler; 02-25-13 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Poor reading skills
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Old 02-25-13, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
That probably has a 7 speed Free Hub body which is too short for cassettes with >7 speeds.
Isn't it also spaced for 145MM?
I took it apart and pulled off the MEGA 7 speed cassette and slid on the new SRAM 9spd cassette. Clearly the hub body is way too short to support the last couple of cogs. I stacked them up anyway to see how much of the locking (ring?) threads would engage. Not very many. I didn't bother to try tightening it as that would have just stripped it and with no splines to support the last couple of cogs, it would not be viable. This as Bill suspected, the body is one of the too short ones.

Is there a viable solution such as a specific longer body available to replace it. Is there a recommended part number or source?

The wheel is NOS Wheelsmith build 135mm 48-spoke tandem wheel I am desiring to repurpose and currently it is perfectly dished and well tensioned. A replacement 40-spoke wheel of simlar quality is currently running $300-ish, so I would like to avoid buying new but also want to avoid making the current wheel less that robust.

Any advice on best way forward and/or sourcing for a longer hub would be welcomed.
/K
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Old 02-25-13, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ksisler
Please ignore, as the previous post answered this... I just didn't see it in time...



Mr R; I don't think I have seen that spec before... Seems like it would be useful to a lot of folks posting here.

Could you also provide that spec for the other variations? I am thinking about a formerly 7spd Shimano hub wanting a SRAM 11-34 9speed cassette, as that is my current issue at hand (apologies for being self-centerer), but the spec for any or everything you happen to have knowledge of would likely be very welcome.

Thanks (and apologies for being so tardy in reading this thread).
/K
If the current freehub is a 7-speed setup, you'll have to change the freehub - if available - and swap in a 8/9/10 freehub along with a slight spacer/locknut change on the drive side as well.

Splined 7-speed freehub bodies and narrower than splined 8/9/10 freehub bodies and both are complemented with differing size axle-end finishing lengths.

Non-drive side is used to finish out the desired OLD spec.

=8-)
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Old 02-25-13, 09:54 AM
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IF you already have the 9 speed shifters, one option is to use 8 of 9 on 7.
https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7

scroll down a bit-
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Old 02-25-13, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
IF you already have the 9 speed shifters, one option is to use 8 of 9 on 7.
https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 scroll down a bit-
I did read sheldon end to end before posting the question (and before taking it apart for the first time).

I stacked up the new 9spd cogset on the existing freehub...even 8 of 9 on 7 is too tall to well engage the threads. I do think I have the "shorter" version 6/7spd vice the normal 7spd freehub. I am going to take it back apart tonight and measure the spline to lock nut distance to make sure what the beast really is, but I am suspecting its really the older 6/7 speed (36mm) Why I didn't measure that distance while I had it apart is well, unspoken. I am now attempting to identify the specifics for a replacement 9spd freehub. It might be cheaper to buy an entire used 9spd bike off craigslist to get the part given what I am seeing the prices for freehubs running ($30-47+UPS)...and would have a lot of parts left over for use elsewhere or swap and flip it back.

/K
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Old 02-25-13, 12:02 PM
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I would just buy a 13-34T 7-speed cassette and call it a day.
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Old 02-25-13, 12:09 PM
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It's a bit of a crapshoot as to whether the body will fit.
I did some swapping a couple years ago, to turn a no name 7 speed hub to a 9 speed using the body off a FH-M570.
I'd recently purchased a couple FH-RM30's ($20 ea. delivered for the whole hub) and tried to swap the "no name 7 speed body" to one of them to reduce dish. It didn't fit.

One thing to check is the spacers. Sometimes the spacer material "extrudes" a bit around the rivet holes and has to be cleaned off with a file. Else it makes the spacers "wider" upon reassembly.
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Old 02-25-13, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit
If the current freehub is a 7-speed setup, you'll have to change the freehub - if available - and swap in a 8/9/10 freehub along with a slight spacer/locknut change on the drive side as well. Splined 7-speed freehub bodies and narrower than splined 8/9/10 freehub bodies and both are complemented with differing size axle-end finishing lengths. Non-drive side is used to finish out the desired OLD spec. =8-)
So if I pickup a complete "Shimano 2013 Tiagra 10 Speed Rear Bicycle Hub - FH-4600" off Amazon for $30 with free shipping, then I could pilfer the freehub and retrofit my existing wheel's HF05 hub, followed by the normal respace/redish it routine? I am basing this on the many inputs on this forum and the comment on Sheldon that all Shimano 8/9/10 speeds are interchangable (but is the Sheldon page up to date)?

/K

[h=1][/h]
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Old 02-25-13, 04:03 PM
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All I know is the RM-30 & M570 aren't.
Hope you are luckier than me.
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Old 02-26-13, 11:21 AM
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Well I did the measurements on the existing freehub body (apologies for ragged ruler, but the backside is filed pretty accurately). Pictures below.

Seems it is 3.8mm and 4.1mm -- indicating it might be another variant of the measures provided by MrRabbit... sort of a 6/7 speed body with thicker than normal spline stops?? Pretty sure it is a real Shimano HF05 hub, but who knows what year it was actually built?

Anyone have ideas one way or the other? If it werent a fairly expensive item to replace, I might file back the spline stops by 1.5mm and retest the SRAM-9 cogset to see if I can get an adequate spline capture for all the cogs... or "8 of 9 on a 9"

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