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  1. #1
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    135mm wheel spacing vs. 130mm spacing?

    I need a rear wheel fast. I just noticed damage to my rim, cracking around 2 spokes. My problem is that I am headed on tour Friday. REI has a rim for $80 as a stop gap to get me through the tour. The problem is that it does not fit.

    It has 135mm spacing and I need 130mm. I need to force it to get it to work. Am I damaging my frame if I leave the wheel forced into the dropouts or should I keep looking for a wheel?

    I was hoping to pickup a 36 spoke wheel with decent sized spokes. But that happening by Friday is slim.
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    If you're riding a steel frame then it's no problem. Otherwise I would not suggest forcing it.

  3. #3
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Yeah should have mentioned it, they are aluminum frame.
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    Take your frame, and leaving the wheel in the dropout with the QR removed, grab the stays, make a wish, and pull them apart like a turkey wishbone.

    If you can get them spread another 5mm (using the wheel as the gauge) fairly easily, you have the answer. Buy your stop gap wheel, and enjoy your trip. If not, shop harder, or shell out and have someone rebuild yours this week.
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  5. #5
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Go someplace besides REI - seriously, you should have no trouble finding a 130mm wheel on the shelf.

    36 hole might be more of a search, but someone should be able to build one in an hour or so.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    I was able to force it fairly easily. Well at least I did not need to brute force it.

    Ok now I have two different opinions.
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    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    Go someplace besides REI - seriously, you should have no trouble finding a 130mm wheel on the shelf.
    The problem is the price for a wheel that will become a backup wheel. I didn't want to pay too much and get a better wheel when I have more choices later. Sounds like Performance has one for $140 but they are 14/15 spokes. I was hoping for straight 14s at least.

    There are a number of smaller shops closed today, I might call around in the morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
    I was able to force it fairly easily. Well at least I did not need to brute force it.

    Ok now I have two different opinions.
    Not really, You may not be able to successfully coldset an aluminum frame to the 135mm width (depends on the material and heat-treat), but if you can spring it open that far you can ride it that way. The only drawback is that you'll need to flex it apart every time you remove and replace the wheel.

    Long term it's less than ideal in that it may accelerate fatigue, but short or medium term it won't be an issue.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
    The problem is the price for a wheel that will become a backup wheel. I didn't want to pay too much and get a better wheel when I have more choices later. Sounds like Performance has one for $140 but they are 14/15 spokes. I was hoping for straight 14s at least.
    .
    The 14/15g butted spoke wheel might actually hold hp better than the 14g wheel. It's an issue of total strength & stiffness, vs. resilience and long term life expectancy. Most better builders use only butted spokes for this reason, reserving plain spokes for special purposes like track sprint wheels.

    All things being equal the butted wheel is a better bet for loaded touring, but the quality of the build will trump the choice of spokes.
    FB
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    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  10. #10
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Not really, You may not be able to successfully coldset an aluminum frame to the 135mm width (depends on the material and heat-treat), but if you can spring it open that far you can ride it that way. The only drawback is that you'll need to flex it apart every time you remove and replace the wheel.

    Long term it's less than ideal in that it may accelerate fatigue, but short or medium term it won't be an issue.

    Thanks for the quick replies. So for a backup wheel, it should be OK?

    Would you go with the Performance wheel I think it is a Mavic $140. Or the REI wheel,, it is a Sun rim with Deore hub - $80.

    REI is closer for me but not too big a deal to get to Performance, across town.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
    Thanks for the quick replies. So for a backup wheel, it should be OK?

    Would you go with the Performance wheel I think it is a Mavic $140. Or the REI wheel,, it is a Sun rim with Deore hub - $80.

    REI is closer for me but not too big a deal to get to Performance, across town.
    It's apples and oranges. The butted spokes and right width are definite pluses. It's hard to make a judgement call on the rims or hubs without exact model to model comparisons, but generally the rim quality is proportioned to the spoke quality so the Mavic should be better (or at least more expensive). Hubs likewise, but all hubs tend to outlive wheels in general.

    So it's more of a question of the build quality. I'd lean to the Performance wheel, but I'd condition the purchase on having the shop mechanic tune it up, checking for alignment, dish, and even tension when I went to pick it up. While your at it, bring your old wheel and let them transfer the cassette, something they should do for free on a new wheel purchase.
    FB
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  12. #12
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    I've cold set steel frames, under the supervision of a professional framebuilder, using the correct Park tool to keep the alignment close to perfect. It's not as easy as it looks.

    I would not try to spread an aluminum frame, period.

    Get a wheel from a good supplier and have them ship it 2cd day.

    These guys are great and they have a Velocity A23/Shimano 105 (130mm spacing), DT Champion 14g spokes, 36H rear wheel in stock in MPLS. The Velocity A23 is a great rim, I have 2000 miles on my first set and added a second set. The 23mm width of the rim takes 700x38 tires easily.

    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=46052
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  13. #13
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    getting a wheel built by friday is not out of line. labor turn around is like 2 days here. even if you needed to order stuff. qbp order goes in on tues. stuff arrives thurs and wheel should be out the door by thurs close.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I've cold set steel frames, under the supervision of a professional framebuilder, using the correct Park tool to keep the alignment close to perfect. It's not as easy as it looks.

    I would not try to spread an aluminum frame, period.
    Yeah, I tend to agree here. I've cold set steel frames, too, and it's real easy to bend just a little too much. Then you have to bend back and it's easy to go just a little too much there, too. If you're not really careful, you end up bending back and forth several times, causing a lot of metal fatigue.

    5mm on Aluminum may work, but it's just not something I'd try unless I really didn't care about the frame. I mean, if you're not attached to the frame and you plan on getting another eventually anyways, go for it. It may work. But don't risk it on something you really care about.

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    For the record, there's a major difference between spring a frame open to accept a wider hub (within reason), and cold setting it so it stay's at a new width. Springing aluminum frames is done all the time and during the period when OLD was changing ie, 126 to 130, a number of makers, including those selling aluminum frames sized them in between, so you'd spring up or down according to the wheel used. This isn't exactly my preference since I like everything to fit just so, but it's never caused structural issues.

    The OP needed an interim solution, and springing the frame open for the wider axle (not permanently cold setting) would have been (and still is) fine.
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    The problem with forcing the rear open is that the droouts are not parallel and put a twisting load on the axle prematurely wearing the hub.

  17. #17
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I've cold set steel frames, under the supervision of a professional framebuilder, using the correct Park tool to keep the alignment close to perfect. It's not as easy as it looks.

    I would not try to spread an aluminum frame, period.

    Get a wheel from a good supplier and have them ship it 2cd day.

    These guys are great and they have a Velocity A23/Shimano 105 (130mm spacing), DT Champion 14g spokes, 36H rear wheel in stock in MPLS. The Velocity A23 is a great rim, I have 2000 miles on my first set and added a second set. The 23mm width of the rim takes 700x38 tires easily.

    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=46052

    Thanks for the tip. I went and ordered the wheel. A shame it does not come in silver but I guess beggars can't be choosers. I went with 3rd day air figured it will be here by Wednesday. Stuck a note on it saying it needs to be here before Friday, so if they don't think third day will do it then they can call me and change it to 2nd day.
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  18. #18
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Loosen up the 2 axle cones and substitute a 5mm shorter spacer on the left end,
    recenter the axle to split that extra length .. 2.5mm on each side, to each end.

    put the wheel in the truing stand, and dish the rim a bit more to the right,
    to be in the center of the new axle overlock nut width..

    it should be fine..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-19-12 at 05:17 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidad View Post
    The problem with forcing the rear open is that the droouts are not parallel and put a twisting load on the axle prematurely wearing the hub.
    Yes, but not earthshaking, and again, the OP was looking for an interim solution.
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  20. #20
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Loosen up the 2 axle cones and substitute a 5mm shorter spacer on the left end,
    recenter the axle to split that extra length .. 2.5mm on each side, to each end.

    put the wheel in the truing stand, and dish the rim a bit more to the right,
    to be in the center of the new axle overlock nut width..

    it should be fine..
    My mechanic friend said pretty much the same thing but the tech ar REI seemed clueless. Too late anyway. I ordered the wheel recommended by Barrettscv . I am getting a decent wheel and I figure the extra to expedite shipping is cheaper than a rim I'll only use for a couple of weeks. Just hope they can get ti to me on time.
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  21. #21
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
    Thanks for the tip. I went and ordered the wheel. A shame it does not come in silver but I guess beggars can't be choosers. I went with 3rd day air figured it will be here by Wednesday. Stuck a note on it saying it needs to be here before Friday, so if they don't think third day will do it then they can call me and change it to 2nd day.
    They do their own wheel-building and have a top reputation. This is not a machine built wheel. These guys usually ship without delay, I've placed 6 to 8 orders with them in the last two years.

    I have this exact wheel, except in a 32 spoke, on my Cyclocross bike. This wheel is used on gravel every week. I'm 210pounds, and the wheel is perfectly true after 2000 miles.



    I would, however, call them with the order number and confirm that it will ship without delay. They should confirm that it is in stock as shown. They are very responsive. If you explain that you are going on tour, they will provide a little extra TLC.

    Let us know the result.

    Michael
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-19-12 at 06:02 PM.
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  22. #22
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Not really, You may not be able to successfully coldset an aluminum frame to the 135mm width (depends on the material and heat-treat), but if you can spring it open that far you can ride it that way. The only drawback is that you'll need to flex it apart every time you remove and replace the wheel
    Yes, exactly. This is what I did with the wife's bike - but I don't count on having to replace the wheel often: puncture resistant tire + drum brake + wife is not an extreme cyclist = no need to remove the wheel in the next decade.

  23. #23
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post

    I would, however, call them with the order number and confirm that it will ship without delay. They should confirm that it is in stock as shown. They are very responsive. If you explain that you are going on tour, they will provide a little extra TLC.

    Let us know the result.

    Michael

    Yep was going to do that. But thanks.


    Nice looking bike. Mine is all scratched after a whole bunch of tours. I might just go ahead and get mine powder coated this winter.
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