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  1. #1
    Senior Member Vlaam4ever's Avatar
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    Spoke replacement(s)

    I just broke my second spoke in as many weeks. I took my wheel to the LBS to be replace spoke(#1), while I was out of town last week. I picked it up on Saturday, rode a quick 15 miler on Saturday, a 45 miler on Sunday, and blew out the spoke(#2) 15 miles into my ride on Monday. spokes (#1 & #2) appear to be exactly opposite it each other. Is this normal?

    Is $5 for the spoke and $20 for a true a reasonable amount? $50 for a couple of spokes sounds high to me, do I have better options? The shop mechanic told me, they are just going to be keep failing, but didn't give me any options. The rim is as true as can be and the hub is still in great shape...Would it be worthwhile just rebuilding it? or go for a new wheel? Am too fat at 175lb?

    Wheel: DT Swiss R1700 (rear) ~ 2000miles

    thx,
    V4E
    20?? Motobecane Fantom Cross UNO, 2008 Giant TCR Advanced, 2000 Trek 2300, 1995 Giant ATX 760

  2. #2
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Where on the spoke did each one break? When you say opposite, do you mean one spoke drive side, one spoke non-drive side, or opposite like 6 and 12 on a clock? (specifically, I'm interested in the drive/non-drive thing)

    Have you ever pulled anything into the wheel on a ride that might have nicked a couple spokes?

    The easy thing to do is to buy a spoke wrench and four replacement spokes for your wheel (~$2 each, two drive-side, two non-drive side). When one breaks, replace it yourself, then tighten it until it plucks the same tone as its neighbors on the same side of the wheel. Then install the wheel and check for true looking at it spinning through your brake pads. I'll bet that if you contact DT about this that they might spot you some spokes since it's only 2k miles.

    You are not too heavy for this wheel.

    Of course, you're too fat for this sport though, like the rest of us.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Did they just true, or also retension the wheel?

    I think when one spoke goes out, if you ride home on the wheel, the other spokes are under a lot more stress, and more likely to die soon, too. From what I've heard, if one spoke goes, you replace it, but if two or three go, you replace the wheel.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Vlaam4ever's Avatar
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    The spokes in question are at 6 and 12 o'clock, both broke at the hub. I cant recall if they are were drive side or not. I did ride home but each time it was <1 mile. I can see the tension of the spokes stressing the remaining ones.

    I think the LBS just trued the wheel. I call them to ask to retention instead.

    I've never crashed, or drawn any debries in to the wheel so no reason to have premature failure on it. I did buy the wheels second hand, but they were never used and were new pull offs from an other bike.

    Would it be worth doing a spoke-only rebuild, now that it is likely that they all are likely stressed?

    I may be starting a wheel build thread soon....
    20?? Motobecane Fantom Cross UNO, 2008 Giant TCR Advanced, 2000 Trek 2300, 1995 Giant ATX 760

  5. #5
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    No, the other spokes are fine. The only things that will really stress a spoke are over-stretching them (taco a wheel), or fatigue (often from being too lose). I've broken two spokes before and ridden that wheel after repair to the point that the braking surface wore out enough that the bead bent from tire pressure...

    I would keep replacing singles if you can DIY. If you're paying for this service, then just do the rebuild, because that shouldn't cost more than $50 for labor, and $2 per spoke. Get a warranty from the builder so you don't have to pay for future breaks.

    I don't know why a straight-pull spoke would be failing at the hub though. I would still recommend you get DT's thought's on this before you spend more money.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ruby13's Avatar
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    Sort of the same problem now. Broke a rear spoke (drive side) on my Shimano Dura Ace 7850 wheel. Dropped at the LBS who replaced and trued but with different chrome nipple (original are red) and I believe same spoke. Yesterday with about 100 miles on the fixed rear wheel the same spoke broke again but this time near the LBS and coasted over. Unfortunately they do not stock Shimano spokes and to carry them they must buy in lots of 50. But they re-tensioned my wheel or trued so that I could ride the 10 miles home.
    Called Shimano who directed me to a few dealers as an option as they do not sell to various chains or internet sites. I've found them all over the UK and have ordered 4 rear and 2 front plus the red nipples and they are costly at about $5 a spoke. As for my wheel, I'm wondering if the LBS used the wrong spoke and nipple and put undo stress on it. I had gone 1400 miles on the wheels before the spoke broke. I'm 180 lbs and well within Shimano's weight limit on my wheels.
    Yours is a different problems as your breaking them on the drive and non drive sides and might be the way they are truing them up after fixing the spoke or putting to much tension on the new spoke.
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  7. #7
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby13 View Post
    Sort of the same problem now. Broke a rear spoke (drive side) on my Shimano Dura Ace 7850 wheel. Dropped at the LBS who replaced and trued but with different chrome nipple (original are red) and I believe same spoke. Yesterday with about 100 miles on the fixed rear wheel the same spoke broke again but this time near the LBS and coasted over. Unfortunately they do not stock Shimano spokes and to carry them they must buy in lots of 50. But they re-tensioned my wheel or trued so that I could ride the 10 miles home.
    Called Shimano who directed me to a few dealers as an option as they do not sell to various chains or internet sites. I've found them all over the UK and have ordered 4 rear and 2 front plus the red nipples and they are costly at about $5 a spoke. As for my wheel, I'm wondering if the LBS used the wrong spoke and nipple and put undo stress on it. I had gone 1400 miles on the wheels before the spoke broke. I'm 180 lbs and well within Shimano's weight limit on my wheels.
    Yours is a different problems as your breaking them on the drive and non drive sides and might be the way they are truing them up after fixing the spoke or putting to much tension on the new spoke.
    No, those rims are spec'd at 100-140kgf, which is the most common tension range for drive-side or front spokes. The spoke would have no problem with the tension. Breaking after 100 miles is curious. That's too soon for a fatigue break unless maybe you could actually hear movement with every pedal stroke. The hub flange might have some damage that is causing a stress riser in the spoke or something. Are the spokes breaking at the head, or where they exit the hub, or at the nipple?

  8. #8
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    I'm going to move this thread over to the mechanics forum where you can likely get better help.

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    You and the bike weigh 190 lbs. That is a little much for 24 spokes. The botique wheels are poorly designed for everyday use. Had to beat 32 to 36 spoked wheels for longivity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
    Did they just true, or also retension the wheel?

    I think when one spoke goes out, if you ride home on the wheel, the other spokes are under a lot more stress, and more likely to die soon, too. From what I've heard, if one spoke goes, you replace it, but if two or three go, you replace the wheel.
    There's hardly any change in stress on the other spokes.

    The problem is that spokes usually fail due to fatigue. All the spokes in a group (front, rear drive side, rear non-drive side) saw about the same average stress ( parts of the elbows not taken past their elastic limit and tension), the same cycle magnitude from rider weight and perhaps flexing in under-tensioned non-drive side spokes, and the same number of cycles (about 750 a mile).

    Without some sort of mechanical damage (your chain ran off the end of the cassette and only knicked the out-bound drive side spokes) they should all be failing about the same time. Slowly at first as the statistical outliers go, then like popcorn in the middle of the bell curve, and tapering off until you've replaced all the spokes.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-29-12 at 03:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Vlaam4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidad View Post
    You and the bike weigh 190 lbs. That is a little much for 24 spokes. The botique wheels are poorly designed for everyday use. Had to beat 32 to 36 spoked wheels for longivity.
    Are the R1700 wheels boutique? I picked these up as new pull offs for not very much money~$270ish. They seem to fit the task at the time, but I never realized these were dainty wheels. The Rolf Vectors on my old Trek lasted 20,000 miles with a few bearing changes, but they are red rimmed, weighed a ton and have even less spokes. Granted they had to be trued every other month ~ 1,000 miles.

    Could you give me an example of a quality, factory-built 32-spoked wheel? Or is custom the way to go. I've never been in the wheel market so I'd like to explore. What would be the suggested wants and needs in a quality build. I'll do some searching on this site as well, but want to make sure I understand factory build vs custom before really spinning my head on this. Price should be <$800, ideally <$500.

    My typical riding is 50-150 miles/ week of crappy pavement around downtown Atlanta, Ga.
    Weight 170-180 lbs depending on how well my football team is doing.
    lots of group rides.
    I'd like to stay at the same weight 1500-1700 gms.
    key for these wheels will longevity.
    Id like a good hub to build around.

    Is custom build worth it?

    thx
    V4E

    EDIT: price was way high
    Last edited by Vlaam4ever; 08-29-12 at 09:34 PM.
    20?? Motobecane Fantom Cross UNO, 2008 Giant TCR Advanced, 2000 Trek 2300, 1995 Giant ATX 760

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    I build my own and some for my friends, so I use customs. These look like they would work for you:http://www.cambriabike.com/6700-Mavi...k-700C-32H.asp

  13. #13
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Custom Kinlin XR-300s with some sensible hubs would be extremely durable (32h rear, 28h front), and could fit in your weight range, especially with some CX-Rays.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Vlaam4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Custom Kinlin XR-300s with some sensible hubs would be extremely durable (32h rear, 28h front), and could fit in your weight range, especially with some CX-Rays.
    What is considered a good hub? How do ultegra and Dure Ace compare to White, Chris King? DT 240s?
    20?? Motobecane Fantom Cross UNO, 2008 Giant TCR Advanced, 2000 Trek 2300, 1995 Giant ATX 760

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlaam4ever View Post
    What is considered a good hub? How do ultegra and Dure Ace compare to White, Chris King? DT 240s?
    They're arguably better but less sexy.

    Most of the boutique hub vendors (Phil Wood is an exception) don't invest in the coining dies that Campagnolo and Shimano use. Cup-and-cone bearings last a very long time when kept lubricated and it's easier to adjust one that's getting worn than it is to replace pressed-in cartridge bearings.

    They cost less.

    And they come in fewer colors and drillings. Campagnolo is even worse than Shimano here with their hubs only available in black with 32 holes.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Vlaam4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
    They're arguably better but less sexy.

    Most of the boutique hub vendors (Phil Wood is an exception) don't invest in the coining dies that Campagnolo and Shimano use. Cup-and-cone bearings last a very long time when kept lubricated and it's easier to adjust one that's getting worn than it is to replace pressed-in cartridge bearings.

    They cost less.

    And they come in fewer colors and drillings. Campagnolo is even worse than Shimano here with their hubs only available in black with 32 holes.
    I've ony seen Phil Wood hubs on dedicated track wheels. Never even realized they make road wheels until your post. I'll review but likely will be out of my price range, since I expect they will be priced on par or higher than White and Chris King.

    Dura ace/Ultegra are good enough for me.
    20?? Motobecane Fantom Cross UNO, 2008 Giant TCR Advanced, 2000 Trek 2300, 1995 Giant ATX 760

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    Give the fine boys a Spinlite Cycling http://www.spinlitecycling.com/ a call. They built a set of wheels for me on Velocity A23 rims with Ultegra hubs; 28 spokes front and 32 rear. These wheels now have over 8000 miles on them. The set was not cheap but I feel I got my money's worth as I expect them to last another 8000 to 16,000 miles.

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