Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-30-12, 11:42 PM   #1
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ST-7700 Dura Ace STI shifters in 2x8 configuration?

Hey guys,

I just picked up some used ST-7700 STI shifters and would like to install them on my 2x8 road bike (I currently have bar end friction shifters). My front mech is a Dura Ace FD-7700 and my rear is an XTR RD-M960-GS or SGS. I think this should work judging from the bits of info I've found so far but I'd really appreciate it if someone who knows for sure could confirm this for me. If it will indeed work do I just hook them up or will I need to do any special adjustments to my cables or derailleurs?

Thanks for reading!

EDIT: OH NO! I just examined the shifters I bought more closely and discovered the downshift lever on the right shifter is very stiff and can only complete a shift when I apply opposite pressure to the brake lever. I did some searching and this seems to be a common problem with these shifters and usually not fixable. Unbelievable, the guy who sold it to me had to have known about this. I guess I got played for a fool.

Last edited by Deetox; 08-31-12 at 04:54 AM.
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 06:09 AM   #2
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,917
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
For starters, ST-7700 brifters were 9-speed so they aren't compatible with your 8-speed cassette anyway. And, yes, any used STI is a crap shoot.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 07:24 AM   #3
Ex Pres
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the 35223 (AL)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
They would be compatible with your 8s cassette only if you use a DuraAce 6-8 speed rear derailleur (74xx series). No other rear derailleur will index properly - but any Shimano 9s STI will shift the 74xx RD properly in 8s mode (limit out one position).

Try flushing the STI with WD40 before you give up hope.

Last edited by Ex Pres; 09-02-12 at 07:50 PM.
Ex Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 07:32 AM   #4
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,917
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
- but any Shimano 9s STI will shift that RD properly in 8s mode (limit out one position).
Despite the cog spacing difference between 8 and 9-speed? I would expect the shifting to be ragged at best.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 09:19 AM   #5
cycle_maven
Collector of Useless Info
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Couple of points:

1) +1 about flushing out the shifter with WD-40.
2) If the rear der is an older XTR and the rear cassette is 8-speed, a 9-speed shifter will do an adequate job of shifting the 8-speed cassette when the "alternate cable routing" method is used. The last position won't activate if the limit screw is set properly. I've done this successfully on a couple of bikes.
3) If the shifters really are 8-speed Dura-Ace, then you will still need to do the "alternate cable routing" method, since the cable pull on 8-speed Dura-Ace is different than other 8-speed STI shifters.

"Alternate Cable Routing" method: http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

Last edited by cycle_maven; 08-31-12 at 09:27 AM.
cycle_maven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 09:43 AM   #6
bobotech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Flush the brifters with WD40. I have the same shifters and yes, mine did the same thing where you had to hold the big handle while clicking the small handle. But after I use almost a whole can of WD40 on them, they now shift just fine.
bobotech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 09:45 AM   #7
bobotech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spokane, WA
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
As for the cog spacing, easiest way to solve it is to get an 9 speed cassette and a 9 speed chain. YOu can get 9 speed chains now for as low as 15 dolllars. I saw them at my local Fred Meyer for 15 dollars. The cassette should be fairly cheap these days as well. Everything else should work fine.
bobotech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 09:46 AM   #8
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Flush the brifters with WD40. I have the same shifters and yes, mine did the same thing where you had to hold the big handle while clicking the small handle. But after I use almost a whole can of WD40 on them, they now shift just fine.
While WD40 can do wonders, I have a box full of Shimano STI where it did not work.

+1 7700 was 9 speed, not 8.
__________________
See my vintage steel bike tribute page on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BillsVintageSteelBikes
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 10:46 AM   #9
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The best solution is a 9-speed cassette and chain. Definitely try flooding the shifters with WD40.
Ex Pres is correct (above) any 9-speed Shimano STI shifter will index perfectly with any 8-speed Shimano road cassette IF the rear dérailleur is a pre 9-speed Dura-Ace.

Last edited by Al1943; 08-31-12 at 11:43 AM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 04:41 PM   #10
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Despite the cog spacing difference between 8 and 9-speed? I would expect the shifting to be ragged at best.
I think by "that RD" he meant the RD-7400, not the OP's XTR
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 07:12 PM   #11
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok thanks guys. Not too sure what I'm going to do with these DA shifters now. I'm trying to get ahold of the guy I bought them from but he isn't answering his phone (of course). I find it hard to believe he would intentionally rip me off but it sure looks like he did. He seemed really nice and had 2 beautiful kids with him when we met up, I guess you never know who will stoop to these levels.

Thanks for the WD40 tip, if I end up being stuck with the shifters I will definitely give that a shot.

Anyway I managed to get a good deal today on a pair of near new (AND WORKING!) Tiagra 4500 STI shifters. Could someone please tell me exactly what I'd have to do to get these ones working on my bike?

EDIT: Just found this Shimano compatibility chart: http://www.shimano.com/publish/conte...ty%20Chart.pdf

According to that it looks like I'd have have to replace both my RD and FD AND my BR-7700 brake system for the Tiagras to work?? Jeez if thats the case I think I'll just sell them to someone else and keep using my bar end shifters.

Last edited by Deetox; 08-31-12 at 08:34 PM.
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 08:33 PM   #12
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
Anyway I managed to get a good deal today on a pair of near new (AND WORKING!) Tiagra 4500 STI shifters. Could someone please tell me exactly what I'd have to do to get these ones working on my bike?
Tiagra 4500 is 10-speed. With those you will need a 10-speed Shimano (or compatible) cassette and 10-speed chain. The rear derailleur you mentioned in your post #1 is a 9-speed mountain type and is compatible with the 4500 shifters. Note that 10-speed mountain type derailleurs are not compatible with 10-speed road shifters.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 09:30 PM   #13
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Tiagra 4500 is 10-speed. With those you will need a 10-speed Shimano (or compatible) cassette and 10-speed chain. The rear derailleur you mentioned in your post #1 is a 9-speed mountain type and is compatible with the 4500 shifters. Note that 10-speed mountain type derailleurs are not compatible with 10-speed road shifters.
Actually the 4500's are 2/3 x 9 speed. http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.st_road.html

So my RD will work but my FD-7700 won't? What about my BR-7700 brakes?
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-12, 10:48 PM   #14
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
Actually the 4500's are 2/3 x 9 speed. http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.st_road.html
After further research I believe you are correct, 9-speed. But it seems there is some confusion in their marketing because some sites show the new 10-speed Tiagra to be 4500. It would fit their numbering system better to call 10-speed Tiagra 4600.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...ssion-12-45513

Last edited by Al1943; 08-31-12 at 11:00 PM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-12, 04:55 AM   #15
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OMG just for the heck of it I decided to count the number of cogs on my cassette and I counted 9! I then looked closely at the smallest cog and noticed "SRAM 9.0" printed on the front of it! So I do in fact already have a 9 speed cassette lol. The guy I bought the bike from told me it was 2x8 speed and I never thought to verify if that was actually true or not. I've only taken it for 2 short rides so far so I'm not really too familiar with it yet. I've been letting it sit in storage until I found a way to replace the flat bar, aero bars and bar end shifters that it currently has with drop bars and brifters.

ALRIGHT so I can now say with absolute certainty that this is a 2x9 speed bike. There is one thing that perplexes me now though, the model name printed on back of the right bar end shifters plastic lever cover is SL-BS50, which according to the velobase website are supposed to be 6/7 speed not 9.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...4b88a&Enum=104

So how the heck are these shifters even working if I have a 9 speed cassette? Guess I'll have to take the bike for a spin tomorrow and do some tests, something isn't right here.

EDIT: Oh yeah and since the bike is 2x9 does that mean the Tiagra 4500's will work or no?

Last edited by Deetox; 09-01-12 at 06:14 AM.
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-12, 03:44 AM   #16
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok I just took the bike for a spin and shortly into the ride when I was trying to switch out of the lowest gear my right bar end shifter stopped shifting completely. Somehow the shifter cable with the little barrel shaped end piece has popped out of the lever and I can't get it back in securely. I can push it back in but it stays loose and pops out again when I push up on the lever. Does anyone know what could have happened and how it might be fixed?

Last edited by Deetox; 09-02-12 at 06:26 AM.
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-12, 07:45 AM   #17
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
OH NO! I just examined the shifters I bought more closely and discovered the downshift lever on the right shifter is very stiff and can only complete a shift when I apply opposite pressure to the brake lever. I did some searching and this seems to be a common problem with these shifters and usually not fixable.
I paid $10 for my Ultegra 9spd STIs because they had this issue, in addition to the worst case of gummy grease I've seen. It's a separate problem, although lubing helped it a bit - it was evident after I'd stripped, cleaned and lubed the levers; I had to take each of them apart like three or four more times to tweak the springs enough.

I sorted it by making the flippers' springs softer and making the big gear levers' springs stiffer. I used long-nosed visegrips to hold one end of the spring and some stubby long-nosed pliers to hold the other end of the spring to coil or uncoil it enough to sit at least about 5-10 degrees away from where it was. Reassembly is likely to be a little trickier as a result, particularly if the flippers' springs don't have a little groove in the pins they rest against, but at least you don't have to disassemble the whole mechanism to perform this fix. Getting the guts of an STI back together can be a hair-tearing exercise... oh, and if working on one of these, take all steps you can think of to guard against flying, never-to-be-retrieved springs... work on a rag on the floor, for a start. You need a special tool, but you can carve one out of an 8mm socket with a cutting disk on a dremel. With a bit of care, the socket can still work on nuts as thin as you'll find. If you look at the thread in my sig, that should give you a rough idea... the 8spd levers were quite different, but all the same principles apply... 9spd is a little trickier to reassemble.

As for 9spd levers not working with your drivetrain, I'd get a Jtek Shiftmate and use it until the chain is worn, then go for a 9spd chain and cassette. Works fine with 8spd cranks and FD.

Last edited by Kimmo; 09-02-12 at 07:55 AM.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-12, 02:42 AM   #18
Deetox
Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, BC Canada
Bikes: Specilaized Stumpjumper, Trek 5900
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I paid $10 for my Ultegra 9spd STIs because they had this issue, in addition to the worst case of gummy grease I've seen. It's a separate problem, although lubing helped it a bit - it was evident after I'd stripped, cleaned and lubed the levers; I had to take each of them apart like three or four more times to tweak the springs enough.

I sorted it by making the flippers' springs softer and making the big gear levers' springs stiffer. I used long-nosed visegrips to hold one end of the spring and some stubby long-nosed pliers to hold the other end of the spring to coil or uncoil it enough to sit at least about 5-10 degrees away from where it was. Reassembly is likely to be a little trickier as a result, particularly if the flippers' springs don't have a little groove in the pins they rest against, but at least you don't have to disassemble the whole mechanism to perform this fix. Getting the guts of an STI back together can be a hair-tearing exercise... oh, and if working on one of these, take all steps you can think of to guard against flying, never-to-be-retrieved springs... work on a rag on the floor, for a start. You need a special tool, but you can carve one out of an 8mm socket with a cutting disk on a dremel. With a bit of care, the socket can still work on nuts as thin as you'll find. If you look at the thread in my sig, that should give you a rough idea... the 8spd levers were quite different, but all the same principles apply... 9spd is a little trickier to reassemble.
Great advice but I've never been too good at taking things apart and putting them back together, I'd butcher the job for sure. But then again if I can't get it working through other methods it might be worth trying anyway, if not just for the learning experience. I'll keep it in mind thanks.

Quote:
As for 9spd levers not working with your drivetrain, I'd get a Jtek Shiftmate and use it until the chain is worn, then go for a 9spd chain and cassette. Works fine with 8spd cranks and FD.
Good advice there too but if you read a couple posts up from yours I actually found out that I already do have a 9spd chain and cassette, I was wrong about this being an 8spd bike. Needless to say I am very pleased about that, getting brifters working should be much easier now. I just went ahead and ordered an FD-4500 on ebay to replace my FD-7700. I'm not 100% sure yet but from what I gather thats the only component I have that isn't compatible with the Tiagra 4500's.

I don't think I'll bother using the ST-7700's even if I do get the right shifter working again somehow, from what I've read the 4500's may be of lesser build quality but they're a heck of a lot more reliable.

Last edited by Deetox; 09-03-12 at 02:51 AM.
Deetox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 AM.