Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Junior Member i n f a m o u s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Upper seat tube dented in from repair stand mount

    Is it possible for a repair stand mount to dent a seat tube on a chromoly steel frame? I recently purchased a brand new Fuji bike from a LBS and noticed my seat tube was dented in near the upper region because of the mount from a repair stand.

    I'm sure its not anything to be worried about but it does bother me because I purchased this bike new and I dislike the fact that my bike was improperly handled.

    I called and told them about the indent near the upper region of the seat tube and the person of the phone told me that its impossible for the clamp to make such a dent on a steel frame bicycle. If they're going to deny it was their doing, would Fuji accept my claim?

    Here's a picture of the seat tube where it's dented in. Also just to clear any confusion, my bicycle is flipped upside down in this picture.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Jose, California
    My Bikes
    2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
    Posts
    3,175
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That's appears to be tapered tubing in the seat cluster area, very often seen on non-lugged frames. Think double-butted inside out.

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lexi01's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Supersix Hi-Mod / Scott Spark 930 / Scott Sportster 20 / Jamis Allegro 2.0
    Posts
    659
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Never really seen anyone clamp a bike that low on the tube for maintenance - or on the seattube at all - always on the (or a crappy replacement) seat post.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,250
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As you purchased it new, how about going back to the shop, and look at another bike of the same model, if this has the same 'dent' then it is how it was made with a tapered tube from the factory.

  5. #5
    Senior Member cale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    429
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't understand the picture. What are we looking at? I've rotated the picture so that the top tube is on top. Are you talking about the area(s) that I show with arrows?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England, currently dividing my time between university in Guildford and home just outside Reading
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here!
    Posts
    1,809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That is almost certainly meant to look like that. Apart from anything else, if the tube had been dented that much, the paint would very likely have cracked and flaked in the area where the actual deformation of the metal took place.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,474
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bike forums has previous threads about damage from bike repair stands. It is not unheard of.

  8. #8
    Senior Member CACycling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    My Bikes
    '08 Fuji Roubaix RC; '07 Schwinn Le Tour GS; '92 Diamond Back Ascent EX
    Posts
    4,439
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If it is dented in that location, the seat post will be locked in place (or, if there is no seat post in place, you will not be able to install one). If you haven't already, check that to verify there is a problem.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    River City, OR
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Appears to be external butted tubing. If it was indeed "squashed" from the clamping, you'd have trouble removing or sliding the seat post in the seat tube. I'd be more concerned about the "big" hole drilled in the seat stay.

  10. #10
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Grid Reference, SK
    My Bikes
    I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
    Posts
    3,769
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Repair stand clamps can damage frames. However, there are usually 2 or 4 flat dents, not a perfectly round and consistent taper that continues the length of the tube. What you are looking at is almost certainly a tapered tube - frames often are made with thicker metal at the top of the seat tube so there is enough material to accurately ream out after welding distortion.

  11. #11
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    39,847
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    step 1. put seatpost in.. I've messed up a decal/sticker, nothing more.

    Clean rag, frame in loose pressure, repair stand clamp is better.. if no seat post (or it's Carbon)
    carbon there is a repair stand seatpost substitute,
    the race team pros, dont use a tube clamp stand.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520
    Posts
    2,227
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That looks intentional to me from the manufacturer.

  13. #13
    Junior Member i n f a m o u s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow! Thanks for the replies and for reassuring me that this wasn't user error.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    As you purchased it new, how about going back to the shop, and look at another bike of the same model, if this has the same 'dent' then it is how it was made with a tapered tube from the factory.
    I have yet to confirm if my bike has the same dent on the seat tube on another bike at the shop but I will when I have the time. I'm just hoping the 'dented' area is tapered tubing like some members here pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by cale View Post
    I don't understand the picture. What are we looking at? I've rotated the picture so that the top tube is on top. Are you talking about the area(s) that I show with arrows?
    Yes, that area you're pointing to.

    Quote Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
    Appears to be external butted tubing. If it was indeed "squashed" from the clamping, you'd have trouble removing or sliding the seat post in the seat tube. I'd be more concerned about the "big" hole drilled in the seat stay.
    I can slide my seat post in and out no problem because of the generous amount of grease they applied to the seat post but until I see with my own eyes that my bike was manufactured the way it is, I will be at peace.

    What's wrong with the hole near the seat stay? Wasn't that hole purposely drilled out to air out any moisture to prevent rusting? I noticed two more holes near the Chain stay too. I'm guessing they serve the same purpose as well?

  14. #14
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Jose, California
    My Bikes
    2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
    Posts
    3,175
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    During brazing/welding, hot gases inside the tubings need to vent.

    =8-)
    4000+ wheels built since 1984...

    Disclaimer:

    1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
    2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
    3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
    4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
    5. My all time favorite book is:

    Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life

  15. #15
    Senior Member Old Hammer Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Utah
    My Bikes
    Trek, Cannondale Tandem, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,082
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Those holes are a great entrance point for Frame Saver; a good idea for a steel frame.

  16. #16
    Senior Member cale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    429
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is this, by any chance, a Fuji Feather? Described on the Fuji website as:

    FRAME: Elios 2 w/ outer-butted seat tube

  17. #17
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    25,930
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    You can crush a bike in a repair stand but the stand has to be pretty tough and the mechanic has to be really strong and incredibly stupid to try and close a clamp on a tube that is too big for it's setting.

    Aluminium frames on the other hand... you don't need to be quite as strong.

    Get into some modern steel tubing with extremely thin walls and you can damage a frame much easier than you can with a straight gauge frame.

  18. #18
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    25,930
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
    Appears to be external butted tubing. If it was indeed "squashed" from the clamping, you'd have trouble removing or sliding the seat post in the seat tube. I'd be more concerned about the "big" hole drilled in the seat stay.
    The holes are for venting gases during welding / brazing.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    River City, OR
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "The holes are for venting gases during welding / brazing."

    Yes, I know the intention of holes for gas venting. The one in question here seems to be in an odd location and way larger than necessary. On a seat stay under compression it is of no consequence, but odd- just sayin'

    I theorize than venting closed end tubes is not necessary. And I'm not the only one who welds tube structures (bike frames, etc) without vent holes.

  20. #20
    Senior Member CACycling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    My Bikes
    '08 Fuji Roubaix RC; '07 Schwinn Le Tour GS; '92 Diamond Back Ascent EX
    Posts
    4,439
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by i n f a m o u s View Post
    I can slide my seat post in and out no problem because of the generous amount of grease they applied to the seat post but until I see with my own eyes that my bike was manufactured the way it is, I will be at peace.
    There is very little tolerance in a seat tube/seat post interface. If the area in your picture was a dent and not the way the bike was manufactured, the seat post would not move.

  21. #21
    Senior Member calstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    santa barbara CA
    Posts
    784
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
    There is very little tolerance in a seat tube/seat post interface. If the area in your picture was a dent and not the way the bike was manufactured, the seat post would not move.
    ^^^^ Yep.
    "The older I get the better I was" (from Old Guys Rule t-shirt)

  22. #22
    Junior Member i n f a m o u s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cale View Post
    Is this, by any chance, a Fuji Feather? Described on the Fuji website as:

    FRAME: Elios 2 w/ outer-butted seat tube
    It's actually a 2012 Fuji Classic.

    Lol, I didn't pay much attention to the 'outer-butted seat tube' description when I read the specs for my bike. Thanks for saving me time from the bike shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
    There is very little tolerance in a seat tube/seat post interface. If the area in your picture was a dent and not the way the bike was manufactured, the seat post would not move.
    I can slide my seat post without any problems which is a good indication that my seat tube has not been compromised. Thanks for the tip.

  23. #23
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder
    Posts
    3,106
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by reddog3 View Post
    "The holes are for venting gases during welding / brazing."

    Yes, I know the intention of holes for gas venting. The one in question here seems to be in an odd location and way larger than necessary. On a seat stay under compression it is of no consequence, but odd- just sayin'

    I theorize than venting closed end tubes is not necessary. And I'm not the only one who welds tube structures (bike frames, etc) without vent holes.
    reddog3- Millions of bikes have these holes. Some larger, some smaller. Usually towards the end of the tube, often in an out of the way/less seen location. It is very uncommon to have said vent hole be the source of a crack or other problem, that's why they're used, because they work REALLY well.

    Another reason to have vent holes, and larger then tiny ones, is to allow the builder/manufacturer to rinse out the interior of the frame to remove the flux after joining the tubes. The flux could cause further corrosion and would prevent any rust inhibitor from fully coating the insides.

    While there is a debate on the need to keep a tube vented after the building, to close off vents or not, their need during manufacturing is not in question. I have built frames with very well hidded vent holes, completely out of sight after the frame has parts assembled on it, only to be scolded by the painter. The vent holes can weep out stuff that contaminates paint. The painter might not see or remember where the holes are and might not take adequate precautions. Andy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •