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  1. #1
    Senior Member h_curtis's Avatar
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    Front wheel shuddering when applying brakes.

    I am not sure if this can be fixed, but the seem in the rim makes it a pain with such a strong shutter. Can you take a grinder to it? It is best to change out the rim. This is on an old '80s track bike that has campy high flange hubs, so I sort of want to keep my hubs. Is there a rime that would be a better fit? Thanks.

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    Don't grind your rim. If you tell us some more about your bike, like what kind of brakes you have (single- or dual-pivot sidepull, centerpull, cantilever, etc.) and how your cable and housing attach, what kind of brake pads and the like, we might be better able to help you. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

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    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    A couple things to check: first, make sure the rim sidewalls are clean. Second, toe-in the brake pads a little.

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    If it's a true track bike, this may be of help. Specifically, the section on fitting a brake. http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html#track

    Basically, track forks aren't designed to take a brake, and they can flex if you fit one. That flex could be responsible for the shudder.

    Also, if the wheels are the original track ones, they probably weren't intended to work with a brake, so the rims may not even be designed for one.

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    h_curtis, I've had to file down one rim at the joint. It was a slight misfit of only a few thou. of a mm caused by a curb strike. Much more than what it was would've caused me to buy a new rim.

    Brad

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    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    Another Factor...

    ...have you tested the headset tightness? A bit of unnecessary play in the headset can accentuate the smallest problem with the brake pad-to-stopping surface.

    If the wheel is new, the seam will wear down faster than the remainder of the braking surface, so this will take care of itself.

    Is the rim very true otherwise?

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    To provide much in the way of useful help; please post some pictures, add a good discriptive discussion, and provide the make, model and year of the items in question.

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    This is on an old '80s track bike
    Ah, the Fixie thing, again..
    Pictures or just go to bike shop so it can be seen..

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    I agree with the previous posts: clean your rims using alcohol; clean the brake pads, I use a file or bgendh grinder; check the tightness of your headset by moving the fork back and forth or better yet, ride the bike slowly and front brake to see if the headset is moving; make sure your front brake is positioned in the middle of the rims; check the trueness of your rims.

  10. #10
    Senior Member h_curtis's Avatar
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    Thank you. As usual, this place has great information. I liked the Sheldon Brown site for this, because it was spot on.

    Yes, this is a "track bike" that I ride on the road.
    Yes, I fit a brake on this bike and it actually works great except when hitting the seam of the rim.
    The wheel is true.
    The brakes are toed in quite a bit.
    These are Campy pads.

    Here are some pictures.

    11022012176.jpg11022012178.jpg11022012177.jpg

  11. #11
    or tarckeemoon, depending marqueemoon's Avatar
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    Is the wheel dished properly?

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    Call me paranoid, but I'd still suspect that rim was never intended to be used with a brake - it wouldn't have made it past quality control if it was, seeing as it's a high-enough end rim to be laced to a Campy hub. If it's not meant for a brake, the sidewalls may not be thick enough to sustain much wear - you may destroy the rim fairly quickly.

  13. #13
    Senior Member h_curtis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airburst View Post
    Call me paranoid, but I'd still suspect that rim was never intended to be used with a brake - it wouldn't have made it past quality control if it was, seeing as it's a high-enough end rim to be laced to a Campy hub. If it's not meant for a brake, the sidewalls may not be thick enough to sustain much wear - you may destroy the rim fairly quickly.
    Hmm. I had a really close look at these wheels and they are old. The rear has NO brake marks at all. I can't make out the name, but I took a picture of it. That picture is from the rear wheel because the front is worn off. As you can see there is no wear at all on the side. I did buy the bike with no brakes and road it for a bit like that, but with our hills, it was just too much brain work to ride that way. I want to relax a little bit and focus on cars more than wondering how long is it going to take to stop.

    Anyway, what kind of rims are these? I have a feeling they shouldn't be used with a brake?

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    h_curtis, The rims are Rigida, a good brand in it's day. My uneducated guess is that the rims were not made for brakes. Because there seems alot of wear for using brakes for such a short period of time I'd suggest replacing the front rim with something compatible with rim brakes.

    Brad

  15. #15
    Senior Member h_curtis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
    h_curtis, The rims are Rigida, a good brand in it's day. My uneducated guess is that the rims were not made for brakes. Because there seems alot of wear for using brakes for such a short period of time I'd suggest replacing the front rim with something compatible with rim brakes.

    Brad
    Thanks. I would like to keep the Campy high flange hubs, so I guess I will have to have a look for something. Any ideas of good period correct rims? Crap, I hate spending more money, but the more I look at the two rims the more I realize I am killing that front one. I guess I could not use a brake much at all. Keeping in mind I live in a very hilly area, but it is doable. I would prefer to change them out though. I used to have some cool Wobbler ones, but I traded them years ago. They were pretty cool. Any suggestions?

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    Something not previously mentioned to check, the hub itself. Make sure the bearings are free but not loose. Old Campy high flange is loose bearing and can be repacked easily enough. Also, check the brake mount itself, it should be tight. Shuddering is almost always a loose part, and in this case I'd guess either headset or hub.

  17. #17
    rebmeM roineS JanMM's Avatar
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    The sidewalls look really rounded. As opposed to having a nice flat surface for brake pads.
    Can't remember how that compares with the one set of wheels with Rigida rims I had long ago. Not track rims.

    (Wolber, not Wobbler, unless they are wobbly.)
    RANS V3 (steel), RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

  18. #18
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  19. #19
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
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    I still have am almost new set of welded, anodized rims from a road bike from the late 80's.
    The braking surface was never machined, as was normal for that time frame, and the rim clearly shows a wave effect with minimal high spots where the swaging process for the nipple eyelet distorted the rim microscopicly. So the anodizing has worn off at 32 equally spaced high spots around the rim and the wave effect has always caused shuddering at medium and low speed braking. In some respects - we're very spoiled today. Even inexpensive rims now have machined braking surfaces.

  20. #20
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airburst View Post
    Call me paranoid, but I'd still suspect that rim was never intended to be used with a brake - it wouldn't have made it past quality control if it was, seeing as it's a high-enough end rim to be laced to a Campy hub.
    It looks like a bog-standard Rigida 1320 rim; we laced thousands of those to Campy hubs at Trek in the 80s. Rims in that era were pinned, not welded (accounting for the seam you probably object to), nor were the sidewalls machined in the manner preferred by modern fashionistas. There is plenty of crud built up on the rims, however, and the pads appear to be well worn. I suspect simply removing the crud from the rim, replacing the pads, and perhaps toeing in the arms a little will solve the OP's problem.

  21. #21
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Buy new brake pads .. maybe you can get ones which you can Toe in easier ..

    Though back in the day .. bending the place the brake pad mounts to works..

    Just make sure it does nor break the Brake doing that... Careful.. !

  22. #22
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    It looks like a bog-standard Rigida 1320 rim; we laced thousands of those to Campy hubs at Trek in the 80s. Rims in that era were pinned, not welded (accounting for the seam you probably object to), nor were the sidewalls machined in the manner preferred by modern fashionistas. There is plenty of crud built up on the rims, however, and the pads appear to be well worn. I suspect simply removing the crud from the rim, replacing the pads, and perhaps toeing in the arms a little will solve the OP's problem.
    Incidental since those are apparently Rigida rims, but Wolber was already producing double walled, eyeletted, welded rims in the '80s as well as pinned rims. Not much has changed. Most aluminum rims produced today by most companies are still pinned, not welded, but there are exceptions.

  23. #23
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    Incidental since those are apparently Rigida rims, but Wolber was already producing double walled, eyeletted, welded rims in the '80s as well as pinned rims. Not much has changed. Most aluminum rims produced today by most companies are still pinned, not welded, but there are exceptions.
    And Weinmann also offered welded aluminum rims back in the 70s. But my point was that back then nobody was concerned if they saw a seam or unmachined brake track.

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