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  1. #1
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    7 to 9 speed mod

    I'm getting ready to mod my mid 90's road bike from 7 to 9 speeds. Here's my shopping list, please me know if I'm going horribly wrong anywhere.

    Crankset, sticking with a double but upgrading to 9 speed compatible. Thinking Stronglight 53/40 square taper.
    Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
    Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
    Rear Derailleur, RD-3400 Sora, or RD-4500 Tiagra (is there much difference between these two?)
    Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-34T)
    Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
    Chain, CN-HG73 LX

    I guess the one the one real concern I have is the 34 tooth cog on the Cassette. Do I need to buy a long cage rear derailleur to avoid interference with the derailleur cage?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Neither of the rear derailleurs you mention will accommodate a 34-tooth cog (they are rated for 27T), and you will need a "total capacity" of 36 teeth or greater to wrap the chain properly given the front and rear tooth ranges you specify.

  3. #3
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    The 3400 only has a max sprocket of 27T (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html) and the 4500 only has a max sprocket of 27T as well (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html).

    The cassette you have picked has a max sprocket of 34T.

    Another factor you need to look at in picking a new derailleur is total capacity. From the specs you give, you need 36T of total capacity. (http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html).

    RK

    EDIT: What he said

  4. #4
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    thats what I was affraid of but sure where to look. So I need to go to a 27T or switch up my derailleur. Thanks guys.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    I'd try using your existing chain rings if there's nothing wrong with them.

    For a short time, I was using a cottered crank set from an early 70's 10 speed (2X5) with a 9 speed cassette.

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    I just did a similar conversion with a Campagnolo group - as Bill said, try your existing crankset / front derailleur first it may work.
    Last edited by d.wayne; 11-25-12 at 07:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member IthaDan's Avatar
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    You might need a new axle and spacer to get under that freehub body. If not a new axle, you might been to make 'change' with the larger spacer that's on the new drive side. be ready to redish your rear wheel if you're not up for coldsetting your frame to 130mm.

    Edit: OP, where in upstate NY? Need a hand?

    Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang

  8. #8
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
    I'd try using your existing chain rings if there's nothing wrong with them.

    For a short time, I was using a cottered crank set from an early 70's 10 speed (2X5) with a 9 speed cassette.
    That what started this whole mod. My front chainrings are shot and was initially was just going to buy a 7 speed replacement crankset. But then thought as long as I'm replacing parts might as well go all the way.

  9. #9
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
    You might need a new axle and spacer to get under that freehub body. If not a new axle, you might been to make 'change' with the larger spacer that's on the new drive side. be ready to redish your rear wheel if you're not up for coldsetting your frame to 130mm.

    Edit: OP, where in upstate NY? Need a hand?
    The frame is already set to 130mm so I'm ready to roll there; and yes, I doubt I'm going to get away without redishing the wheel. I've never done it before but from what I've read I think I can do it without screwing it up. I'm not too far away, Syracuse. Thanks

  10. #10
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkfsm View Post
    The 3400 only has a max sprocket of 27T (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html) and the 4500 only has a max sprocket of 27T as well (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html).

    The cassette you have picked has a max sprocket of 34T.

    Another factor you need to look at in picking a new derailleur is total capacity. From the specs you give, you need 36T of total capacity. (http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html).

    RK

    EDIT: What he said
    I took a look at that calculator but not sure how to calculate the rear derailleur requirements. I'm thinking if I back of to a 32T (which I think would still be plenty low gearing) I can use this:

    Model Number RD-M675-GS
    Series SLX
    Shifting Action Top-Normal
    Mount Type Direct Attachment
    Maximum Sprocket 36T
    Minimum Sprocket 11T
    Front Difference 22T
    Total Capacity 35T

    Is there any disadvantage to using a mountain bike derailleur? Any advantage to medium vs long cage in this model?

  11. #11
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Compare all the parts at Retail + Frame spread , to getting a new bike, ready to go..

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    Quote Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
    Is there any disadvantage to using a mountain bike dérailleur? Any advantage to medium vs long cage in this model?
    For this specific example, yes. The M675 is 10 speed Dyna-Sys, this is only compatible with other Dyna-Sys components. You would need to look for a 9 speed RD / non Dyna-Sys component,

    If you are looking at a 32T max on the rear, then a Shimano GS road rear dérailleur will work, although you may need to reverse the B screw,

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    RDER's have 2 things to be concerned about.
    1 Min/Max cog sizes.
    2. Chain wrap capacity
    That is calculated by-
    (Largest ring - smallest ring) + (Largest cog - smallest cog)
    (53-40) + (32-11)
    = 13 + 23
    = 36

    You can fudge a bit if you don't use the small-small combination, which would result in chain sag. Not dangerous, but "tacky" at best.

  14. #14
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    Rather than pushing a road derailleur's limits or hacking the B screw, just get a 9-speed MTB derailleur which will handle the 34T cog and wrap plenty of chain with ease, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Deore-M591-SGS.../dp/B0064QND30

  15. #15
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Compare all the parts at Retail + Frame spread , to getting a new bike, ready to go..
    It's no contest. I'm going to pick all this stuff up for around $300; new bike = $1100.

  16. #16
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    For this specific example, yes. The M675 is 10 speed Dyna-Sys, this is only compatible with other Dyna-Sys components. You would need to look for a 9 speed RD / non Dyna-Sys component,

    If you are looking at a 32T max on the rear, then a Shimano GS road rear dérailleur will work, although you may need to reverse the B screw,
    OK; Good save.

  17. #17
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
    RDER's have 2 things to be concerned about.
    1 Min/Max cog sizes.
    2. Chain wrap capacity
    That is calculated by-
    (Largest ring - smallest ring) + (Largest cog - smallest cog)
    (53-40) + (32-11)
    = 13 + 23
    = 36

    You can fudge a bit if you don't use the small-small combination, which would result in chain sag. Not dangerous, but "tacky" at best.
    If I go with the the long cage (SGS) MTB derailleur I can get 36. I'm going to do that plus down size the biggest ring to 32. So, I have enough total, plus a little extra.

  18. #18
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    New parts list:

    Crankset, Raceface Cadence 39/53T
    Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
    Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
    Rear Derailleur, Deore M591-SGS
    Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-32T)
    Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
    Chain, CN-HG73 LX

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
    New parts list:

    Crankset, Raceface Cadence 39/53T
    Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
    Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
    Rear Derailleur, Deore M591-SGS
    Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-32T)
    Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
    Chain, CN-HG73 LX
    One more comment, do you really need a 53x11 (130 gear-inch) high gear? Consider a compact crank (typically a 50/34 double) instead of the 53/39. It will give you a usefully lower low gear while sacrificing nearly nothing for the high gear which will still be 122 gear-inches.

    Since you are using barend shifters that have friction front shifting, nearly any road front derailleur will work.

  20. #20
    Senior Member IthaDan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
    The frame is already set to 130mm so I'm ready to roll there; and yes, I doubt I'm going to get away without redishing the wheel. I've never done it before but from what I've read I think I can do it without screwing it up. I'm not too far away, Syracuse. Thanks
    Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

    I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.

    Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang

  21. #21
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    One more comment, do you really need a 53x11 (130 gear-inch) high gear? Consider a compact crank (typically a 50/34 double) instead of the 53/39. It will give you a usefully lower low gear while sacrificing nearly nothing for the high gear which will still be 122 gear-inches.

    Since you are using barend shifters that have friction front shifting, nearly any road front derailleur will work.
    Pittsburgh!!! Home of the Dirty Dozen.

    I thought if I go to a wider range on the rear with a 32T for low gear, I can stick with a standard crankest, and still have top end speed. Was afraid if I went to a compact crank I would loose that.

  22. #22
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
    Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

    I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.
    What's the name of you're shop? I'll definitely stop in with or without the bike next time I'm down that way.

  23. #23
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
    Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

    I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.
    Oh, and to answer your question; the frame has been "coldset" (hope I'm using that term correctly) to 130mm.

  24. #24
    Senior Member IthaDan's Avatar
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    "My" shop is in my garage. I volunteer at the coop, RIBS, though.

    Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang

  25. #25
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    53/11 versus 50/11 will only get you more speed if you have the power in your legs to drive it. Most riders use gearing to get speed, but also use cadence (rpm of the crankset). The speed you pedal has something to do with knee health and avoidance of injury even for young riders. A healthy cadence is in the range of 80 to 95 rpm. If you can turn a 53/11 at 80 rpm, you'll be going 30 mph. How long can you do that, in your experience? 50/11 is not much easier, being 28 mph.

    30 mph takes about 400 watts for a 160# rider. 20 mph takes about 175.

    Granted, riding feel (I like to pedal slow sometimes, like downhill) is part of it, but in terms of pure speed a compact at 50/11, 50/12, or 48/12 is going to get you where you want to go as fast as you can pedal, over the term of a ride.

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