Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-24-12, 07:27 PM   #1
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
7 to 9 speed mod

I'm getting ready to mod my mid 90's road bike from 7 to 9 speeds. Here's my shopping list, please me know if I'm going horribly wrong anywhere.

Crankset, sticking with a double but upgrading to 9 speed compatible. Thinking Stronglight 53/40 square taper.
Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
Rear Derailleur, RD-3400 Sora, or RD-4500 Tiagra (is there much difference between these two?)
Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-34T)
Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
Chain, CN-HG73 LX

I guess the one the one real concern I have is the 34 tooth cog on the Cassette. Do I need to buy a long cage rear derailleur to avoid interference with the derailleur cage?

Thanks
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 07:43 PM   #2
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Posts: 4,498
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Neither of the rear derailleurs you mention will accommodate a 34-tooth cog (they are rated for 27T), and you will need a "total capacity" of 36 teeth or greater to wrap the chain properly given the front and rear tooth ranges you specify.
dsbrantjr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 07:52 PM   #3
rjkfsm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The closest hotel to where I am working that week
Bikes: 2013 Fuji Sportif
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The 3400 only has a max sprocket of 27T (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html) and the 4500 only has a max sprocket of 27T as well (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html).

The cassette you have picked has a max sprocket of 34T.

Another factor you need to look at in picking a new derailleur is total capacity. From the specs you give, you need 36T of total capacity. (http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html).

RK

EDIT: What he said
rjkfsm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 08:18 PM   #4
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thats what I was affraid of but sure where to look. So I need to go to a 27T or switch up my derailleur. Thanks guys.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 09:30 PM   #5
Bill Kapaun
Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Bikes: 86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.
Posts: 9,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
I'd try using your existing chain rings if there's nothing wrong with them.

For a short time, I was using a cottered crank set from an early 70's 10 speed (2X5) with a 9 speed cassette.
Bill Kapaun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 09:35 PM   #6
d.wayne
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just did a similar conversion with a Campagnolo group - as Bill said, try your existing crankset / front derailleur first it may work.

Last edited by d.wayne; 11-25-12 at 08:25 AM.
d.wayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 09:43 PM   #7
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Posts: 4,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You might need a new axle and spacer to get under that freehub body. If not a new axle, you might been to make 'change' with the larger spacer that's on the new drive side. be ready to redish your rear wheel if you're not up for coldsetting your frame to 130mm.

Edit: OP, where in upstate NY? Need a hand?
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 10:40 PM   #8
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I'd try using your existing chain rings if there's nothing wrong with them.

For a short time, I was using a cottered crank set from an early 70's 10 speed (2X5) with a 9 speed cassette.
That what started this whole mod. My front chainrings are shot and was initially was just going to buy a 7 speed replacement crankset. But then thought as long as I'm replacing parts might as well go all the way.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 10:45 PM   #9
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
You might need a new axle and spacer to get under that freehub body. If not a new axle, you might been to make 'change' with the larger spacer that's on the new drive side. be ready to redish your rear wheel if you're not up for coldsetting your frame to 130mm.

Edit: OP, where in upstate NY? Need a hand?
The frame is already set to 130mm so I'm ready to roll there; and yes, I doubt I'm going to get away without redishing the wheel. I've never done it before but from what I've read I think I can do it without screwing it up. I'm not too far away, Syracuse. Thanks
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-12, 11:40 PM   #10
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjkfsm View Post
The 3400 only has a max sprocket of 27T (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html) and the 4500 only has a max sprocket of 27T as well (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...-.rd_road.html).

The cassette you have picked has a max sprocket of 34T.

Another factor you need to look at in picking a new derailleur is total capacity. From the specs you give, you need 36T of total capacity. (http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html).

RK

EDIT: What he said
I took a look at that calculator but not sure how to calculate the rear derailleur requirements. I'm thinking if I back of to a 32T (which I think would still be plenty low gearing) I can use this:

[TABLE]
[TR="class: productCode"]
[TD]Model Number [/TD]
[TD]RD-M675-GS [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Series [/TD]
[TD]SLX [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shifting Action [/TD]
[TD]Top-Normal [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mount Type [/TD]
[TD]Direct Attachment [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum Sprocket [/TD]
[TD]36T [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minimum Sprocket [/TD]
[TD]11T [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Front Difference [/TD]
[TD]22T [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total Capacity [/TD]
[TD]35T [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Is there any disadvantage to using a mountain bike derailleur? Any advantage to medium vs long cage in this model?
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 01:41 AM   #11
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,846
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Compare all the parts at Retail + Frame spread , to getting a new bike, ready to go..
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 01:54 AM   #12
jimc101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Bikes:
Posts: 4,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
Is there any disadvantage to using a mountain bike dérailleur? Any advantage to medium vs long cage in this model?
For this specific example, yes. The M675 is 10 speed Dyna-Sys, this is only compatible with other Dyna-Sys components. You would need to look for a 9 speed RD / non Dyna-Sys component,

If you are looking at a 32T max on the rear, then a Shimano GS road rear dérailleur will work, although you may need to reverse the B screw,
jimc101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 03:13 AM   #13
Bill Kapaun
Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Bikes: 86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.
Posts: 9,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
RDER's have 2 things to be concerned about.
1 Min/Max cog sizes.
2. Chain wrap capacity
That is calculated by-
(Largest ring - smallest ring) + (Largest cog - smallest cog)
(53-40) + (32-11)
= 13 + 23
= 36

You can fudge a bit if you don't use the small-small combination, which would result in chain sag. Not dangerous, but "tacky" at best.
Bill Kapaun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 08:17 AM   #14
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Posts: 4,498
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Rather than pushing a road derailleur's limits or hacking the B screw, just get a 9-speed MTB derailleur which will handle the 34T cog and wrap plenty of chain with ease, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Deore-M591-SGS.../dp/B0064QND30
dsbrantjr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:04 AM   #15
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Compare all the parts at Retail + Frame spread , to getting a new bike, ready to go..
It's no contest. I'm going to pick all this stuff up for around $300; new bike = $1100.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:07 AM   #16
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
For this specific example, yes. The M675 is 10 speed Dyna-Sys, this is only compatible with other Dyna-Sys components. You would need to look for a 9 speed RD / non Dyna-Sys component,

If you are looking at a 32T max on the rear, then a Shimano GS road rear dérailleur will work, although you may need to reverse the B screw,
OK; Good save.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:09 AM   #17
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
RDER's have 2 things to be concerned about.
1 Min/Max cog sizes.
2. Chain wrap capacity
That is calculated by-
(Largest ring - smallest ring) + (Largest cog - smallest cog)
(53-40) + (32-11)
= 13 + 23
= 36

You can fudge a bit if you don't use the small-small combination, which would result in chain sag. Not dangerous, but "tacky" at best.
If I go with the the long cage (SGS) MTB derailleur I can get 36. I'm going to do that plus down size the biggest ring to 32. So, I have enough total, plus a little extra.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:13 AM   #18
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
New parts list:

Crankset, Raceface Cadence 39/53T
Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
Rear Derailleur, Deore M591-SGS
Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-32T)
Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
Chain, CN-HG73 LX
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:29 AM   #19
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
New parts list:

Crankset, Raceface Cadence 39/53T
Ultegra 3X9 bar end shifters, SL-BS77
Front derailleur, thinking FD-2300 (Should work even though it 8 speed right?)
Rear Derailleur, Deore M591-SGS
Cassette, CS-HG50-9 speed Tiagra (11-32T)
Freehub Body, Tiagra FH-4500
Chain, CN-HG73 LX
One more comment, do you really need a 53x11 (130 gear-inch) high gear? Consider a compact crank (typically a 50/34 double) instead of the 53/39. It will give you a usefully lower low gear while sacrificing nearly nothing for the high gear which will still be 122 gear-inches.

Since you are using barend shifters that have friction front shifting, nearly any road front derailleur will work.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:42 AM   #20
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Posts: 4,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
The frame is already set to 130mm so I'm ready to roll there; and yes, I doubt I'm going to get away without redishing the wheel. I've never done it before but from what I've read I think I can do it without screwing it up. I'm not too far away, Syracuse. Thanks
Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:50 AM   #21
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
One more comment, do you really need a 53x11 (130 gear-inch) high gear? Consider a compact crank (typically a 50/34 double) instead of the 53/39. It will give you a usefully lower low gear while sacrificing nearly nothing for the high gear which will still be 122 gear-inches.

Since you are using barend shifters that have friction front shifting, nearly any road front derailleur will work.
Pittsburgh!!! Home of the Dirty Dozen.

I thought if I go to a wider range on the rear with a 32T for low gear, I can stick with a standard crankest, and still have top end speed. Was afraid if I went to a compact crank I would loose that.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:52 AM   #22
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.
What's the name of you're shop? I'll definitely stop in with or without the bike next time I'm down that way.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 09:54 AM   #23
koolerb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
Well, if you get stuck or are up for a drive to use my shop, let me know.

I'm still a little confused- if the frame is already 130mm, I wonder if you're 7 speed because of a spacer on an already 8 speed freehub body.
Oh, and to answer your question; the frame has been "coldset" (hope I'm using that term correctly) to 130mm.
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 11:34 AM   #24
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Posts: 4,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"My" shop is in my garage. I volunteer at the coop, RIBS, though.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-12, 12:49 PM   #25
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
53/11 versus 50/11 will only get you more speed if you have the power in your legs to drive it. Most riders use gearing to get speed, but also use cadence (rpm of the crankset). The speed you pedal has something to do with knee health and avoidance of injury even for young riders. A healthy cadence is in the range of 80 to 95 rpm. If you can turn a 53/11 at 80 rpm, you'll be going 30 mph. How long can you do that, in your experience? 50/11 is not much easier, being 28 mph.

30 mph takes about 400 watts for a 160# rider. 20 mph takes about 175.

Granted, riding feel (I like to pedal slow sometimes, like downhill) is part of it, but in terms of pure speed a compact at 50/11, 50/12, or 48/12 is going to get you where you want to go as fast as you can pedal, over the term of a ride.
Road Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 AM.