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  1. #1
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Anybody recognize this part ????

    Head set crown race. I need to know brand and what group this comes from. No markings on it. Anyone recognize it? Thanks.


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  2. #2
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    All the Campagnolo crown races I've seen are clearly marked as Campagnolo, so you can probably rule out Campy.

    It looks nicely chromed, and ground and polished, so it's likely a reasonably high-end part. Can you determine what size balls it is intended to use? Is it ISO (26.4mm) or JIS (27.0mm) diameter?

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    1" or 1-1/8"?

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    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. It's 1 inch, ID of 26.4. It is nicely made, however, it is a bit of a sore point for me. Bought a "NOS" Campagnolo Record French thread head set from a seller in France at it included a few parts that were definitely not original. I'm having a bit of trouble with the seller, who claims he bought it that way, etc., from a reputable seller with high feedback in France, so I am trying to document exactly what it is. That and I'm curious too. I thought maybe it might be Triomphe or Victory but don't have any experience with those. Live and learn, I guess.

  5. #5
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
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    My guess is an Avocet or other well made Italian (but not Campy). The curvature of the bearing surface looks to be for 3/16" balls. Might also be a Campy copy Japanese, like a Hotta. Andy.

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    The groove around the outside edge is probably intended to take an O-ring seal. Did the O-ring come with it?

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    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
    My guess is an Avocet or other well made Italian (but not Campy). The curvature of the bearing surface looks to be for 3/16" balls. Might also be a Campy copy Japanese, like a Hotta. Andy.
    Thanks Andy. Unfortunately I forgot to check which balls before I packed it back up. It did come with a new set of Campy bearings but I didn't try one of my old sets to determine if it would have worked or not. As for an O ring, HillRider, well, no it didn't come with an O ring but I wouldn't have been any more non-plussed if it had I guess. It, of course, is supposed to look like this one next to it. I told the seller that is was quite obvious to me that someone, not inferring him, had used some parts out of the set and replaced them with improper parts. The crown race is, after all, probably the most worn out part when replacing a head set, I would think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    The crown race is, after all, probably the most worn out part when replacing a head set, I would think.
    Absolutely. The crown race and the lower cup are nearly always the first items to be damaged and/or wear out in any headset. In fact, you could probably use the top races forever and only replace the bottom half of your headset.

  9. #9
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
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    The groove around the outer surface is too shallow for an O ring to fit. It is, however, deep enough to trap some grease to act as a seal of sorts. Andy.

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    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    It, of course, is supposed to look like this one next to it. I told the seller that is was quite obvious to me that someone, not inferring him, had used some parts out of the set and replaced them with improper parts. The crown race is, after all, probably the most worn out part when replacing a head set, I would think.
    But does it fit properly? It looks virtually identical to the Campy race next to it. If it fits and works smoothly, at least you'll get a functional headset out of it.

  11. #11
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    FWIW Avocet components were made by Ofmega, in Italy, their saddles By Selle Italia.
    have a Avocet Race 2, indistinguishable from Turbos, but for the nylon shell having a thinner
    portion under the sit bones (their Patent)

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    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    I didn't try to install it as it was described as a NOS Record headset and some of the part weren't. Though it probably would have functioned, I can't put a non-correct part on my bikes. That and it was not as described and for the cost of a NOS Campy headset, it wasn't worth it. Should have stuck with Bicycle Classics I suppose. An expensive lesson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    FWIW Avocet components were made by Ofmega, in Italy, their saddles By Selle Italia. have a Avocet Race 2, indistinguishable from Turbos, but for the nylon shell having a thinner portion under the sit bones (their Patent)
    A bit OT but I'm also a big fan of Avocet saddles. I have O2 Men's versions on all of my bikes and three spares on the shelf.

    Avocet is another story of a company having a great market presence and then squandering it. Their Model 20 cyclecomputer was the first really good one but the follow on models got expensive, quality slipped badly, the M 50 "Altimeter" version never worked right and they lost their place to Cat-Eye and several others.

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    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
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    Now we're really tangenting off thread...but. It could be said that it was Avocet's marketing that caused the company to take the hit that it did. To advertize one product after another, in the public arena (as opposed to private investers only), then delay the actual distribution is what many of my customers took issue with. The Mod 50 Altimeter, the roller bearing headset, much of their component parts (although these had less of the delay to market they did suffer with stocking availability) are all examples. The stuff was, for the most part, well made and worked pretty much as claimed. But as a shop we couldn't get the stuff on our shelves and had to explane to customers why we couldn't. Death to the messenger, after a while the shops just subbed some thing else that was available.

    I still have a few Altimiters, seats and tires (currently on my tandem) in my stash. I wish the company had survived and flurished. It could have been real competition to the big three. Who knows, maybe we'd be talking about the new 2013 Avocet 12 speed electronic system right now. Too bad it would be 2015 before we'd see it Andy.

  15. #15
    Retro Grouch onespeedbiker's Avatar
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    Was it supposed to be C-Record? At a glace it is similar to the C-Record crown race; it has not markings and a seal where the groove is. I'll check further but a window just opened in the rain and I gotta go!

  16. #16
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
    Was it supposed to be C-Record? At a glace it is similar to the C-Record crown race; it has not markings and a seal where the groove is. I'll check further but a window just opened in the rain and I gotta go!
    No. It was sold to me as Record. Specifically, Nuovo Record. The bottom pressed cup and top nut were good. The top pressed cup looked exactly like Nuovo Record but with no stampings or markings on it, and the chroming was not as good as on Record in spots. The spacer was a joke. Lighter material than a Record and plated terribly and, used too boot. Needless to say, since I bid on the basis that it was a NOS N. Record headset, I'm not too happy.
    Computers are useless. All they can give you are answers.
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  17. #17
    Half way there gmt13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    A bit OT but I'm also a big fan of Avocet saddles. I have O2 Men's versions on all of my bikes and three spares on the shelf.

    Avocet is another story of a company having a great market presence and then squandering it. Their Model 20 cyclecomputer was the first really good one but the follow on models got expensive, quality slipped badly, the M 50 "Altimeter" version never worked right and they lost their place to Cat-Eye and several others.
    I am still using my old Model 20. Doesn't have a lot of features but it has 4 hub mounted magnets so speed is updated more frequently.

    -G

  18. #18
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    Head set crown race. I need to know brand and what group this comes from. No markings on it. Anyone recognize it? Thanks.

    Are you sure it's Campy? Because the crown race in my Tange Levin is identical. The groove doesn't have an O-ring, it just forms a labyrinth for dirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
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  19. #19
    Retro Grouch onespeedbiker's Avatar
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    It's definitely a C-Record era crown race; probably a Chorus. These are some photos of C-record Chorus parts; the third photo is the seal that goes into the outside groove. BTW, I have some extra seals if you need them.


    crace 1.JPGcrace2.JPGcrace3.JPG

  20. #20
    Retro Grouch onespeedbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
    Are you sure it's Campy? Because the crown race in my Tange Levin is identical. The groove doesn't have an O-ring, it just forms a labyrinth for dirt.



    You're damn skippy...
    I've never seen a Levin with a groove..however the Levin steel NJS crown race is identical to a Nuovo Record; not sure about the alloy.

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