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Old 12-23-12, 10:11 PM   #1
jsidney
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Using 27" wheels with 105 8 speed cassete or changing to 700c?

If I want to use this on an bike that has 27" wheels.



Are there any 27" wheels that will accept the cassette? If there is one that will accept this am I still better off moving to 700c?

I am not worried about tire availability. The tires I want to use are available in 27"

I want to know what problems I am going to run into. I will probably not use the brakes as the bike has canti brakes on it.

The bike is a 87 Trek 520.
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Old 12-23-12, 10:46 PM   #2
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any 27" rim with the right spoke hole count can be built into a wheel with an appropriate freehub. most any newer road hub will be 130mm nut to nut, while your frame is probably 125 or 127mm, so the frame might need a slight stretch, as long as its steel, thats easy. after you assemble it, check the chain line, you may find you'll want a slightly longer or shorter BB to keep the chain line reasonable. remember that to move the chainrings N mm, you need a BB axle thats 2*N mm bigger or smaller.

edit: the QBP catalog your local bike store probably orders out of has 2 different grades of 27' wheels from Dimension.

Last edited by pierce; 12-23-12 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 12-23-12, 10:56 PM   #3
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If the brake pads will dop 4mm you could use these. http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2468
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Old 12-23-12, 11:10 PM   #4
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any 27" rim with the right spoke hole count can be built into a wheel with an appropriate freehub. most any newer road hub will be 130mm nut to nut, while your frame is probably 125 or 127mm, so the frame might need a slight stretch, as long as its steel, thats easy. after you assemble it, check the chain line, you may find you'll want a slightly longer or shorter BB to keep the chain line reasonable. remember that to move the chainrings N mm, you need a BB axle thats 2*N mm bigger or smaller.

edit: the QBP catalog your local bike store probably orders out of has 2 different grades of 27' wheels from Dimension.
There is no local bike store. I need to go 100 miles to find a bike store.

How do I know what spoke count I will need?
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Old 12-23-12, 11:12 PM   #5
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If the brake pads will dop 4mm you could use these. http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2468
I am trying to avoid going to 700c wheels since the bike was made for 27's and want to avoid having to make changes to the brakes. I only want to go to 700's if I have to.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:26 PM   #6
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So, you want to put the 105 on a 1987 520 that you're building up from the bare frame? Am I understanding this right?

If so, just get 700c wheels. I doubt there are that many good 27" wheelsets available with cassette hubs. If you find one, go for it. Feel free to use whatever wheel size you want. But if you are buying new wheels and tires I would just go with 700c.

Your only potential issue is getting the brake pads to drop 4mm, which has not been a problem for me yet and I seriously doubt it would be a problem with cantilever brakes. They are pretty adjustable.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:32 PM   #7
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So, you want to put the 105 on a 1987 520 that you're building up from the bare frame? Am I understanding this right?

If so, just get 700c wheels. I doubt there are that many good 27" wheelsets available with cassette hubs. If you find one, go for it. Feel free to use whatever wheel size you want. But if you are buying new wheels and tires I would just go with 700c.

Your only potential issue is getting the brake pads to drop 4mm, which has not been a problem for me yet and I seriously doubt it would be a problem with cantilever brakes. They are pretty adjustable.
This is a bike I am currently using. I was worried about tires and bought a bunch of them. I also thought going to 700c would ruin the lines of the bike. I like the old lugged 520 frame so much I am going to run two of them set up different but working as a back up for each other. I want one to use bar end shifters and be the bike I use for 100 mile each way trips and have the second one set up with brifters (the short range bike). The bar end bike is the simple one, the other bike I have to make other changes.

I used to lose tube all time due to tire punctures. I found a place that had a bunch of 27" tires I wanted. I bought several but I suddenly stopped losing tubes when I got the new tires. The gatorskin hardshells seem to be doing their job.

I don't have the second Trek 520 yet but will get one.

Last edited by jsidney; 12-23-12 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:41 PM   #8
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if he's going all 105 on the parts, he probably doesn't want Tioga or Sora grade hubs. just saying.

those 27" Dimension wheels I saw had 2200 series hubs, which I think are a grade below Sora ? (yes. Sora is 3x00, Tiagra is 4x00, and 105 is 5x00 series). Ok, Tiagra probably would be OK when matched with older 105 stuff.


Velocity still lists the Synergy rim in 27", available as a 32, 36, and 40 hole. otherwise you're stuck with a really poorly made Alex rim (single walll, sloppy pinned joint), or a SunRingle (chinese) rim of unknown quality.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:42 PM   #9
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I still don't think I understand the original question... So you have all these 105 parts, you want to put them on your 520, but you can't because your rear wheel has a freewheel hub instead of a cassette hub? So now you need a cassette hub wheelset?

What I would do in that situation is just buy a cheap Shimano cassette hub and lace it into your existing rear rim. Especially since you have a stockpile of 27" tires.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:28 AM   #10
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I still don't think I understand the original question... So you have all these 105 parts, you want to put them on your 520, but you can't because your rear wheel has a freewheel hub instead of a cassette hub? So now you need a cassette hub wheelset?

What I would do in that situation is just buy a cheap Shimano cassette hub and lace it into your existing rear rim. Especially since you have a stockpile of 27" tires.
I have never done this before and didn't know I could get a cassette hub into the old wheel. I got these parts used to use someday. I for some reason thought that there was more different between 27' and 700c wheels. I thought special wheels were needed to use brifters.

That said if I can benefit by getting a better wheel for this in 27' I am willing to do it.

Last edited by jsidney; 12-24-12 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:30 AM   #11
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On spoke count, I will need to take a look and count them. When someone posted "enough spokes" Do wheels using cassette hubs need more spokes than before?
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Old 12-24-12, 12:39 AM   #12
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Special wheels aren't needed for brifters, it's the hub that matters (and the matching cassette, and RD, which you appear to have in your photo.)

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On spoke count, I will need to take a look and count them. When someone posted "enough spokes" Do wheels using cassette hubs need more spokes than before?
No. The "spoke count" just means you have to get a hub with the same number of spoke holes as your rim. You most likely have a 36 hole rim, and if so you would need a 36 hole hub. These are easy to find so don't worry. Then you just need 36 spokes in the proper length to rebuild the wheel. I get the feeling (at this point) you would need someone to do this for you, but if you want to get into wheelbuilding now is the time!

All this is assuming your original rim is still in good shape. If it's not, or near the end of its life, forget the hub swap and just get a new wheel.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:42 AM   #13
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actually, modern wheels often have FEWER spokes than classic bike wheels, but this has nothing directly to do with threaded freewheel vs freehub+cassette...

36H was pretty standard in the 70s/80s, then they started down to 32, 28, 26, even 24 or less. I've seen 16 spoke wheels on modern race bikes.

fewer spokes makes a lighter wheel, but if anything goes wrong, you're waiting for a sag wagon. with 36H, you can break a spoke, and probably ride home just by setting the brakes a little wider.

you can get most model hubs in a variety of spoke counts. if you're going to build a new wheel using your existing rims, obviously, the hub has to have the same spoke count as the rim.. if you're going to build new wheels, you want hubs, rims and spokes all to have the same count. the number of spokes and the size of the hub flange, and the spoking pattern determines how long the spokes have to be.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:52 AM   #14
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Special wheels aren't needed for brifters, it's the hub that matters (and the matching cassette, and RD, which you appear to have in your photo.)



No. The "spoke count" just means you have to get a hub with the same number of spoke holes as your rim. You most likely have a 36 hole rim, and if so you would need a 36 hole hub. These are easy to find so don't worry. Then you just need 36 spokes in the proper length to rebuild the wheel. I get the feeling (at this point) you would need someone to do this for you, but if you want to get into wheelbuilding now is the time!

All this is assuming your original rim is still in good shape. If it's not, or near the end of its life, forget the hub swap and just get a new wheel.
Thanks, I am starting to understand now. Hmmm, replacing spokes. I will need to read up on this. Maybe it is time to get a new wheel anyway. I wonder if I can buy a wheel with the correct length spokes? This will all be very new to me.

I know this is a very subjective question but how involved is wheel building and will I need a large number of specialized tools?

Edited.

I think I just realized something else and understand now. I need to examine my existing wheels, I have only really looked at the wheels when I have been changing tubes and tires but never really examined how they are put together. The hub is the center attachment point for the spokes. I am finally starting to get it. I think I will fully understand when I look over my wheels and examine how they are put together.

Last edited by jsidney; 12-24-12 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:55 AM   #15
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actually, modern wheels often have FEWER spokes than classic bike wheels, but this has nothing directly to do with threaded freewheel vs freehub+cassette...

36H was pretty standard in the 70s/80s, then they started down to 32, 28, 26, even 24 or less. I've seen 16 spoke wheels on modern race bikes.

fewer spokes makes a lighter wheel, but if anything goes wrong, you're waiting for a sag wagon. with 36H, you can break a spoke, and probably ride home just by setting the brakes a little wider.

you can get most model hubs in a variety of spoke counts. if you're going to build a new wheel using your existing rims, obviously, the hub has to have the same spoke count as the rim.. if you're going to build new wheels, you want hubs, rims and spokes all to have the same count. the number of spokes and the size of the hub flange, and the spoking pattern determines how long the spokes have to be.
If strength can be a real issue I think I would want to keep the spoke count up and have a margin of safety. When I go on my 100 mile each way trips I pass through 3 towns all less than 5k people so there is no place I can get parts until I finally arrive at my destination.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:58 AM   #16
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I'm a big fan of 36H wheels. I think they have a softer ride than the lower spoke count wheels, which require higher tension. also, 36H is a LOT easier to lace and tune than low count.
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Old 12-24-12, 01:09 AM   #17
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I am sure it is not going to be as bad as I think it is going to be. I plan on taking the bike down to the bare frame then put it back together again with the new parts. I need to do this just to know how everything works. Since there is no LBS and I use bikes as my primary transportation I should learn as much as I can about them. Maybe this exercise will make me accumulate all the tools I need to properly take care of bicycles.

I have several bikes that I don't use as they are either in disrepair or they don't fit me as well as the 520.

My plan is to get rid of all the other bikes I have and eventually become a three bike person. A pair of Trek 520's and eventually get a Big Dummy.

Last edited by jsidney; 12-24-12 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 12-24-12, 02:57 AM   #18
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The only 27" wheel with I cassette hub I've ever seen is the one I built last weekend. (my first build)

See-
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-Upgrade/page2
post 39
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Old 12-24-12, 04:35 AM   #19
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this one is a freehub. but its a really cheap Shimano 2200 series hub (2200 < Sora < Tiagra < 105 < Ultegra < Dura-ace, in Shimano's road lineup).

http://www.aebike.com/Dimension-Valu...d_p_49044.html

it will take 8,9,10 speed cassettes.
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Old 12-24-12, 09:16 AM   #20
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this one is a freehub. but its a really cheap Shimano 2200 series hub (2200 < Sora < Tiagra < 105 < Ultegra < Dura-ace, in Shimano's road lineup).

http://www.aebike.com/Dimension-Valu...d_p_49044.html

it will take 8,9,10 speed cassettes.
You can't buy the individual parts for that price.
I'd get that, have the spokes tensioned at the bike shop and you should have a solid wheel as long as you keep the bearings serviced on a semi regular basis.
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Old 12-24-12, 09:39 AM   #21
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You also need to do some research and thread searching to see if those levers will have compatible pull to operate canti brakes without travel agents or something similiar.
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Old 12-24-12, 10:06 AM   #22
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I think I just realized something else and understand now. I need to examine my existing wheels, I have only really looked at the wheels when I have been changing tubes and tires but never really examined how they are put together. The hub is the center attachment point for the spokes. I am finally starting to get it.
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I am sure it is not going to be as bad as I think it is going to be. I plan on taking the bike down to the bare frame then put it back together again with the new parts. I need to do this just to know how everything works. Since there is no LBS and I use bikes as my primary transportation I should learn as much as I can about them. Maybe this exercise will make me accumulate all the tools I need to properly take care of bicycles.

I have several bikes that I don't use as they are either in disrepair or they don't fit me as well as the 520.
Honestly, I think if you try a bare frame build right now you will run into lots of issues and frustration. Better to start slow working on one thing at a time than taking the entire bike apart if you don't know what you're doing. I'd wait to do the component swap on the 520 until you have some more knowledge and tools. Try repairing your other bikes first and get them roadworthy. Then when you have the necessary tools and feel comfortable working on them you can tackle the bigger projects.

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You also need to do some research and thread searching to see if those levers will have compatible pull to operate canti brakes without travel agents or something similiar.
They will. Caliper brakes and cantis use the same cable pull. Only V-brakes and most discs are different.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dedhed
You also need to do some research and thread searching to see if those levers will have compatible pull to operate canti brakes without travel agents or something similiar."




"They will. Caliper brakes and cantis use the same cable pull. Only V-brakes and most discs are different."

Yes, the levers will work with cantis but they will wprk best with traditionally shaped cantis, not the low profile styles. The attached photo is an example of a traditional canti style. Note the straddle cable and arm relationship, the arms stick out to the side (not low profile). Just before linier pull brakes came onto the market cantis had "evolved" shape wise so that the arms were much more vertical, or low profile to the wheel. These types will work but really need more cable pull, then what road levers provide, to be best. Andy.
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Old 12-24-12, 02:18 PM   #24
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I guess I will need to look at the Cantis that I have and see if I will need to change those as well. At the moment I am going to assume they will work. These cantis are from 1987 if that helps.
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Old 12-24-12, 05:06 PM   #25
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one option is to CALL a larger bike shop in the nearest town and have them make a 27" wheel with a hub that will accept a 8 speed cassette and have it shipped to you.

it will cost a more than a existing wheel but you can get exactly what you want instead of getting something you might have to compromise to make it work.

i know this bike shop can make any wheel you want, in any strength quality you want it in.

www.benscycle.net
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