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Old 01-20-13, 02:09 PM   #1
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Campagnolo 8-speed hub replacement for 10-speed Shimano

Evening all,

I just picked up a mint wheelset. Campagnolo Shamal HPW, with an 8-speed Campy freehub body. Dirt cheap too.

I am wanting to run 10-speed Shimano/SRAM on the intended build.

What are my options?
-does anyone make a conversion cassette for the lonely orphan that is Campy 8-speed?
-is there a way of just swapping the freehub body, perhaps?
-do I need to relace the wheel with a Shimano freehub?

Should I just get a jtek converter & run it 8-speed?

Thanks all for any advice.
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Old 01-20-13, 02:15 PM   #2
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It looks like Highpath may sell me the correct spacers. Does anyone have any experience with this uk company?
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Old 01-20-13, 02:57 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
Evening all,

I just picked up a mint wheelset. Campagnolo Shamal HPW, with an 8-speed Campy freehub body. Dirt cheap too.

I am wanting to run 10-speed Shimano/SRAM on the intended build.

What are my options?
-does anyone make a conversion cassette for the lonely orphan that is Campy 8-speed?
No. Campagnolo 8 speed splines are shallower than 9/10/11 and won't accept a new conversion cassette.

Quote:
-is there a way of just swapping the freehub body, perhaps?
Perhaps.

Campagnolo didn't start making hyperglide conversion freehubs for their wheels until after they'd moved the high-end wheels to over-sized aluminum axles, although with a bearing swap you might be able to make something work (maybe a freehub for the lower end steel axle hubs).

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-20-13 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 01-20-13, 02:59 PM   #4
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Thanks Drew.
Iīm searching the Interwebs but if anything there is too much info, itīs hard to get a specific answer amongst the myriad questions regarding shimano/campy compatabilty.
Cheers
Simon
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Old 01-20-13, 03:28 PM   #5
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Just a thought, I wonder if it would be possible to grind at some of the splines on the current freehub body to get the Shimano/SRAM cassette to fit. If it's steel it might be worth a try. I wonder how "close" the two spine patterns are, and if the Campy 8S freehub body is wide enough for a 10S Shimano cassette.

I think the old Shamal wheels look awesome, but I always dismissed them as being unusable (for me) because I don't have anything with a Campy drivetrain.
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Old 01-20-13, 03:32 PM   #6
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Donīt think thatīs going to work. I fear it would mangle the cassette or freehub body.
It looks like a Corima freehub for Shimano might screw on. I have asked a few online distributors and will see who responds.

Letīs hope it works as Iīm mega keen on the Shamals.
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Old 01-20-13, 03:51 PM   #7
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Highpath have stopped trading. Marchisio may still make cassettes for 8 speed. Miche did an 8 speed last time I checked but this is all 8 speed sprockets for an 8 speed system.
I retired my Campy 8 speed due to the difficulty of sourcing spares.

There are some freehubs which fit some Campagnolo wheels and convert to Shimano type splines.
http://www.slanecycles.com/campagnol...pd-p-3130.html
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Old 01-20-13, 05:02 PM   #8
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Yep, looks like freehub replacement is the way to go. I just need to be sure it will fit the older bell shaped Campy hub.
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Old 01-20-13, 06:01 PM   #9
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Highpath have stopped trading. Marchisio may still make cassettes for 8 speed. Miche did an 8 speed last time I checked but this is all 8 speed sprockets for an 8 speed system.
I retired my Campy 8 speed due to the difficulty of sourcing spares.

There are some freehubs which fit some Campagnolo wheels and convert to Shimano type splines.
http://www.slanecycles.com/campagnol...pd-p-3130.html
Nope.

That's setup for a 2007+ Campagnolo/Fulcrum hub with the over-sized aluminum axle.

The original poster's hub is still derived from the C-Record forging. While the sexiest hub shape ever, it uses a conventional 10mm steel axle with matching smaller freehub bearing inside diameter which complicates things.

A bearing swap is a possibility to mate new freehub to old hub, although I don't know if that would be enough (for example - the locating shoulder on the axle could be longer or shorter and necessitate different spacing between inner and outer bearings).

Here are a few spares catalog illustrations:

1999+ over-sized axle (there are slight differences for 2007 and newer). I have one of these (1999-2006 Record).

Campagnolo branded freehubs with Shimano splines were available for this design:
Part WH-KX890 fits 2007+ variants
WH-KX1 (Record) and WH-KX2 (Chorus) were built for 1999-2006

Some grinding is required to mate some freehub/axle combinations. Supposedly new freehubs need some grinding to go on old axles but the swap works as-is the other way.



Conventional axle as in the original poster's hub. Athena and below used a different axle and drive side bearing than Chorus and above although I haven't a clue how that affects free hub interchange. I have a couple of these (1996 Chorus with 1997 Record freehubs to update from 8 cogs to 9/10 - that may be an option in conjunction with a Marchisio cassette with Shimano thickness Campagnolo splined spacers). Campagnolo support for Hyperglide post-dates these hubs.



Cartridge bearing design used on less expensive Campagnolo and Fulcrum hubs. I'd expect the hollow axle have larger diameter at least on the non-drive side than the conventional design but have never seen one in person and measured.

Part WH-KX3 is a Shimano splined freehub for this hub design.

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Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-20-13 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 01-21-13, 01:14 AM   #10
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Wow Drew, many thanks for the info there.
Very much appreciated.

In the event that a swap to a Shimano-splined freehub isn't possible, then we're looking at a 9/10 speed Campy freehub swap, and a conversion cassette or Jtek Shiftmate on a Campy cassette, then?

Drew, can you have a look at this Corima freehub replacement - is it too modern a design for the 8-speed update?

http://www.corima.com/accessories/co...ette-body.html

Thanks in advance!
Simon

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Old 01-21-13, 03:30 AM   #11
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Iīve just had a thought.
I have an early 9-speed Campagnolo freehub on a beaten up wheel in the parts bin.
Maybe I could transplant that over and use some kind of conversion cassette on the 9-speed freehub, with Shimano spacing?
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Old 01-21-13, 06:27 AM   #12
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OK, hereīs the plan.

-swap out the 8-speed Campy freehub on the Shamal for the 9-speed Campy freehub in the parts bin.
-order a bunch of custom spacers from Chris at Highpath in Wales
-run 9-speed cassette with 10-speed shimano spacing. Obviously Iīll lose a gear, but as the crankset is a triple I shouldnīt miss it too much.

What could possibly go wrong? Apart from the 9 speed hub not fitting on the Shamal, of course? And my general mechanical ineptitude?
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Old 01-21-13, 06:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
No. Campagnolo 8 speed splines are shallower than 9/10/11 and won't accept a new conversion cassette.



Perhaps.

Campagnolo didn't start making hyperglide conversion freehubs for their wheels until after they'd moved the high-end wheels to over-sized aluminum axles, although with a bearing swap you might be able to make something work (maybe a freehub for the lower end steel axle hubs).
Campy 9/10/11 freehub bodies are online. I did a set of Chorus hubs and they work great. They used the standard small dia steel axle though. I'm sure you can convert them to use a Campy cassette. As for Shimano, Drew is correct. Campy didn't make a Shimano freehub in the early days.
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Old 01-21-13, 11:40 AM   #14
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I'm not sure if there's been a clear answer to this one: Can you swap a Campy 10 speed freehub body onto a hub originally made for Campy 8-speed? If so, I have two 8speed orphans whose careers will become much longer.
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Old 01-21-13, 11:46 AM   #15
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How many spokes are those Shamals? Are they the crazy 12-spokes? If so, you can probably lace the rear up to a 36 or 24h Shimano hub, problem solved. The wheel will be stronger too (as long as the hub flanges can handle the tension) due to the better flange spacing.
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Old 01-21-13, 12:57 PM   #16
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I'm not sure if there's been a clear answer to this one: Can you swap a Campy 10 speed freehub body onto a hub originally made for Campy 8-speed? If so, I have two 8speed orphans whose careers will become much longer.
Sometimes.

1997-1998 9 speed Record and Chorus freehubs interchange with their 8 speed predecessors. I installed a couple of Record Titanium 9 speed freehubs on my 1996 Chorus hubs after Campagnolo discontinued my favorite 8 speed cassette and before the New Old Stock supply dried up.

1997-1999 9 Speed Athena/Veloce interchange with their 8 speed counter parts as well as older Mirage hubs. An axle swap might be needed to swap for Record/Chorus - that went with the different freehub, along with a different drive side bearing although the 1996 hubs paired the Record bearing with the Athena axle + freehub. I've never tried that.

Everything below Daytona level in 2000 uses the cartridge bearing design previously used for 1997 and newer Mirage/Avanti. Those should interchange with each other. You might need a bearing change to use them with a higher level hub. I've never tried that combination either.

The 1999+ over-sized design definitely won't interchange. I have one of those and the bearing ID is much larger. You might be able to swap bearings and spacers to use a conventional axle, although the bearings were never intended to be replaceable and people do things like drilling a hole so they can compress the retaining ring.

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Old 01-21-13, 01:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
Wow Drew, many thanks for the info there.
Very much appreciated.

In the event that a swap to a Shimano-splined freehub isn't possible, then we're looking at a 9/10 speed Campy freehub swap, and a conversion cassette or Jtek Shiftmate on a Campy cassette, then?

Drew, can you have a look at this Corima freehub replacement - is it too modern a design for the 8-speed update?
That won't mate to a Campagnolo hub. Campagnolo freehubs have exposed pawls which engage ramps in the hub and are secured with a nut on the axle. Those seem to have the freewheel mechanism built in like a Shimano freehub and have threads where Campagnolo pawls would be.

Presumably they're built for Corima branded wheels.

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Old 01-21-13, 01:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
OK, hereīs the plan.

-swap out the 8-speed Campy freehub on the Shamal for the 9-speed Campy freehub in the parts bin.
-order a bunch of custom spacers from Chris at Highpath in Wales
Re-spacing a Campagnolo 10 speed cassette to Shimano dimensions would work and may be more future proof (Campagnolo discontinued all but 3 8 cog combinations shortly after the 9 speed introduction, and we've since moved to 11 cogs).

Current production Veloce are all loose cogs and Centaur (apart from the 14-23 which is all loose) only has the final two on a carrier.

Quote:
What could possibly go wrong? Apart from the 9 speed hub not fitting on the Shamal, of course? And my general mechanical ineptitude?
The right 9 speed freehub will definitely interchange although you might need an additional washer on the drive side for the chain to clear your drop out when on the small cog (the 9 speed freehub is 1mm wider).
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Old 02-03-13, 09:18 AM   #19
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::UPDATE::

The seller misdescribed the wheelset. It already has a Shimano 8/9/10 freehub.

Happy days!
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Old 02-03-13, 09:30 AM   #20
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What, like I suggested doing?

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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
How many spokes are those Shamals? Are they the crazy 12-spokes? If so, you can probably lace the rear up to a 36 or 24h Shimano hub, problem solved. The wheel will be stronger too (as long as the hub flanges can handle the tension) due to the better flange spacing.
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Old 02-03-13, 10:06 AM   #21
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Nope - a previous owner swapped in a Shimano cassette body. I'll post pics later.
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Old 02-03-13, 06:47 PM   #22
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Maybe I missed something, but didn't everyone above concur that there wasn't a part to do the job?

Perhaps you're the beneficiary of a seriously cool bit of kludging

I'm still wondering if these are the wild 12 spoke Shamals...
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Old 02-04-13, 03:17 AM   #23
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16 spoke Shamals front & rear. No way I was going with the 12 spoke ones with my, ahem, muscular figure.....
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Old 02-04-13, 03:20 AM   #24
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I got the impression that a freehub swap *used to be* possible, but the parts were no longer readily available. Maybe mine was swapped way back when.In any case, I now also have a barely used 8-speed Shimano cassette too ready for my commuter which runs a 2x8 Shimano set up!
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Old 02-04-13, 06:40 AM   #25
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Sweet!
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