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Old 03-02-13, 03:29 PM   #1
jawnn
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Avid BB7 dis-funk-tion!!!

I have been using my bb7 from last fall, just the other day I had to adjust the pads.

The inside piston punched a hole in the pad because I adjusted it out too far. When I took the pads out to examine the thing, the outside piston came out and would not go back in. I had to remove the other piston to get the thing back in, but not until I had to remove the lock ring wire from the post of the outside piston. Then I discovered that the pistons are not magnetized so I had to put the spring back on the pads replacing them both at the same time.

Well I got it all back together and it worked fine, but on the way to town I lost the inside piston adjustment red plastic knob! Why would that fall off and how do I get a new one???

The adjustment will not stay where I put it because the plastic knob has some kind of positioning actuator in it.

Their web site has no way for the users to contact them.

There must be a simpler more heavy duty mechanical disc brake than this!!! I am thinking about Shimmono for the next bike.
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Old 03-02-13, 03:54 PM   #2
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Ask your LBS to order small parts from QBP, they sell the small parts for those brakes.

SRAM website will give you part numbers , there is an 'exploded view' parts diagram.

services flow back up stream from dealers to distributors, to manufacturers .
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Old 03-02-13, 07:18 PM   #3
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Sram does everything they can to have service issues handled through dealers. They're in a better position to properly assess a problem, check for related problems, and order the right parts or explain what they see to a service tech.

It's a logical way to do business, and you shouldn't fight it. After all when your car breaks down, you don't have it towed to Detroit, do you?
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Old 03-03-13, 03:51 AM   #4
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* The pressure foot (piston) shouldn't punch a hole in the pad, how much braking material is left on the pad ?
* Putting the pressure foot (piston) back in is a simple fix that doesn't require pulling out the inner pressure foot.
* Parts fall off when they aren't put on properly.
* BB7's are a good brake, mistakes made by the user can't be blamed on the brake.

Look:

BB7 Service Manual: http://cdn.sram.com/sites/default/fi...al_english.pdf

BB7 Setup & Installation Manual: http://cdn.sram.com/sites/default/fi...d7_English.pdf

BB7 Exploded Diagram & Part Numbers: http://www.who-sells-it.com/images/c...rts-000012.jpg

* The 2008/2009 model in the diagram is the current model.
* If you need spare parts your LBS can order them, you could also put Avid + Part Number into Google, it shouldn't be to hard to find a online shop that sells the parts. It'd probably be a good idea to get your LBS to fix the brake.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BB7 FIX.jpg (82.2 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by cobba; 03-03-13 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 03-04-13, 12:21 PM   #5
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QBP requires a large order.....I am not telling lies here, I had to remove both of the pistons to remove the wire ring that was on the outside piston post, because it would not squeeze back together after it got stretch out when I was trying to reposition it with the spring still in place.

I was working in dim light and it was getting cold. Yes I did not realize that the outer knob had to be pushed on until it clicks over the notched outer ring of the brake body...does the manuel say to do that?

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/qp..._spc_rev_b.pdf

both of the pressure foot pistons have a a positioning protuberance and it did most certainly puch a hole in the pad, do I have to show you a photo?
It will take a couple days. Too bad I didn't have time to even think about photographing the whole opperation.

I hate these brakes.....I need something simpler! What is available????

And I never was able to adjust the inside red knob with my hands…. 36 spokes was too many to get my hand around, and still have gripping power.

Too bad I do not have the internet at home, so I could look up the service manuel.....Bah!

Last edited by jawnn; 03-04-13 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 03-04-13, 01:54 PM   #6
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At the LBS they/we put together a order with enough things to make the shipping worthwhile,
but I would not call it a huge order, it's not like needing to buy a bikeframe and groupset kind of order..

retail bike shops that also resell over the Web , with basiclly QBP overlay graphics in the corner
of online catalogs of theirs might be a contact .. bikeman in Maine, Universal in Portland OR?

I see : knob kit: 11.5311.916. 000 for 07 , and 010 for 08,
Quote:
I hate these brakes.....I need something simpler! What is available????
hydraulics.. then they do the pad wear adjustment for you,

just dont hit the brake-lever with the wheel out ..
or the auto adjust fills in the gap the disc needs to go back in.

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-05-13 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 03-05-13, 04:15 AM   #7
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I had to remove both of the pistons
No you didn't, you removed both of the pistons because you didn't know what you were doing.

Quote:
I was working in dim light
Not the best working conditions to pull a mechanical disc brake caliper apart, they are a little bit more complicated then a v-brake.

Quote:
Well I got it all back together and it worked fine, but on the way to town I lost the inside piston adjustment red plastic knob! Why would that fall off and how do I get a new one???

Quote:
Yes I did not realize that the outer knob had to be pushed on until it clicks over the notched outer ring of the brake body...does the manuel say to do that?
Which knob did you loose ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Avid+BB7+Pad+Adjuster+Knob+Kit

The BB7 Service Manual doesn't say 'clicks' but it does say that the Adjuster Knobs need to be pressed firmly into place, if they're pressed firm enough they will 'click' into place. The metal piece that fits in the slot of the Outboard Adjuster Knob is called a Foot Screw, it needs to be in the correct position when the Outboard Adjuster Knob is put back on, if it isn't the knob won't go on properly.

Quote:
both of the pressure foot pistons have a a positioning protuberance and it did most certainly push a hole in the pad, do I have to show you a photo?
It will take a couple days.
The Pressure Feet do have little knobs on them but they shouldn't extend any further then the thickness of the pad's backing plate.

I'd like to see a photo of this pad with a hole in it.

Quote:
The adjustment will not stay where I put it because the plastic knob has some kind of positioning actuator in it.
That's the foot screw.

Outboard Adjuster Knob > Foot Screw > Drive Cam > Pressure Foot > Pad

The Foot Screw fits into the Outboard Adjuster Knob and screws into the Drive Cam.

The Pressure Foot (male part) fits into the Drive Cam (female part).

When the Outboard Adjuster Knob is turned clockwise the Foot Screw pushes the Pressure Foot outwards from the Drive Cam and inwards towards the rotor.

When the Outboard Adjuster Knob is turned anticlockwise after it has been turned clockwise the Foot Screw will not pull the Pressure Foot back into the Drive Cam, the Pressure Foot needs to be pushed back into the Drive Cam, this is done when the brake is actuated, the pads pushing against rotor will push it back in, it can also be done with a screwdriver if the pads and rotor/wheel is removed.

* If the Outboard Adjuster Knob is turned 3 full turns clockwise the Pressure Foot will dislodge from the Drive Cam and it will need to be pushed back into it.
* If the Outboard Adjuster Knob is turned clockwise even more the Foot Screw will fully unscrew from the Drive Cam and the flat end of it that fits in the slot of the Outboard Adjuster Knob can come out, if this happens the Foot Screw needs to be screwed back into the Drive Cam and the flat end of it needs to be positioned back in the Outboard Adjuster Knob before the Pressure Foot can be pushed back into the Drive Cam.

The BB7 Service Manual describes how to Pressure Foot back in whan it comes out.

Quote:
And I never was able to adjust the inside red knob with my hands…. 36 spokes was too many to get my hand around, and still have gripping power.

Quote:
There must be a simpler more heavy duty mechanical disc brake than this!!! I am thinking about Shimano for the next bike.
The threads on the inner adjuster can get dirt in them which can make it hard to turn, if it's hard to turn it probably needs a service.

The inner pad adjustment on Shimano mechanicals is done with a allen key, you can also adjust the inner pad on a BB7 with a allen key too.

A Shimano mechanical disc brake won't be any better then a BB7 and you'll probably have similar problems if you pull one of those apart without knowing what you're doing.

If you knew what you were doing when you pulled the BB7 apart there wouldn't of been any of the problems you're having now.

Last edited by cobba; 03-05-13 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 03-05-13, 12:20 PM   #8
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photos

wouldn't that be nice... to know what I was doing. I am not the first one to loose the knob off these things, so say the big bike shop I went to get a knob kit. Only$8.39?

I was thinking that maybe a grain of sand got in between the plate and the pad, what else could do that.




this is the T handle torx I had to use to adjust the wheel side


so this is as good as a disc brake can be?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg brake pad 001.jpg (96.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg brake pad 002.jpg (99.9 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg brake pad 003.jpg (90.8 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by jawnn; 03-05-13 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 03-05-13, 12:31 PM   #9
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so this is as good as a disc brake can be?
Well it all depends on how much money you want to spend.

there are hydraulic disc brakes that ,as a pair, may cost more
than you were willing to spend for the whole bike.

What you wrote, sounds like you have tried to do work you did not prepare yourself to do.
and messed up the job.. thats not the part's fault.

the AVid Pads themselves fit into the caliper, held in, just with the return spring,

Im guessing, other than backing off the previously done pad wear adjustments,
you did not have to do more than just replace the pads, themselves.

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-05-13 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 03-05-13, 12:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jawnn View Post
so this is as good as a disc brake can be?
Like anything else, disc brakes are only as good as those who work on them.
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Old 03-05-13, 01:19 PM   #11
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Those pads are overheated and falling apart.....They look like they might have actually been glowing at some point......Purple is not the correct color for the backing plate....

They got a severe work out.Even metal turns to butter if you get it hot enough.

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Old 03-05-13, 03:50 PM   #12
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If you are smoking brake pads, coming Fast, off Mountains, consider . going to the largest disc size,
210, vs 160,
and one with a center hub of aluminum, as a heat sink, and maybe the brake pad backing of aluminum..
another heat dissipation advance. You will probably go through a Lot of pads and Discs riding agressively..

In a Hydraulic Disc Brake, hard braking Heats the Brake Fluid and forces it into
the expansion tank in the lever.
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Old 03-06-13, 11:23 AM   #13
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If your running brakes this hard,your need more mass,to help get rid of heat.....bigger everything!

Hydraulic brakes help take some of the heat away.....I know in cars and motorcycles,you can boil the fluid if you try hard enough.....I guess if your on a big enough hill you could do it on a bicycle.

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Old 03-06-13, 12:11 PM   #14
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The color you see on one of the photos is from light reflecting off my hand that was holding the camera. Bith photots are of the same pad.

I do ride downhill with heavy cargo, so maybe they did get a bit hotter than they should, but I wonder if they come with organic pads and they may be a bit softer. Now I got the metal sintered pads.

The only thing I know for sure is that none of this would have happened if the plates were magnetized.
Is Tektro the only one with magnetic pressure plates???
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Old 03-06-13, 12:38 PM   #15
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Magura's new hydraulic disc brakes have a magnetic pad retention.

they only make Hydraulic Brakes , Use Mineral Oil , not DOT brake fluid.

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-06-13 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 03-06-13, 09:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jawnn View Post
I do ride downhill with heavy cargo, so maybe they did get a bit hotter than they should
Do you 'ride' the brake ?
What type of rotor are you using and what size is it ?

Quote:
The only thing I know for sure is that none of this would have happened if the plates were magnetized.
How do you know this and what makes you think that magnets would solve the problem that you think you have ?

What's wrong with the Pad Spreader that's sandwiched between the 2 pads, it seems to work for most people, why doesn't it work for you?

Is it possible that the brake pad with the hole in it might of had some flaws from when it was made.

When people want to upgrade their cheap low end mechanical disc brake to a better mechanical disc brake the BB7 is usually at the top of the list of what to get.

* The Type F BBDB (the first 'BB7' model) that was made from about 1999 to 2001 had magnets in the Pressure Feet.
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Old 03-07-13, 11:13 AM   #17
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I put BB7 on my touring bike recently,they came with some type of sintered pad in them.....looks like copper.They lasted 2 days.....

Everytime I used the brakes it sounded like somebody replaced 2 nickles for my pads.....Worked good,just too aggressive for the touring bike.Changed to EBC green.....much better for the street.

Quiet when wet and dry.

Changing to a magnetic type holder will do nothing.....It burned a hole through the backing plate because that's where the "piston" hits the pad,so that's where heat gets transfered.If the piston was not touching the pad,no heat would have been transfered and the pad would be fine.

In order to keep from cooking pads,everything needs to have enough mass in order to draw the heat from the pads.Calipers are part of that process.Bigger rotors will help hold/dissipate heat faster,that's about your only option on bicycles......Unless somebody makes 4-6 piston calipers for bicycles....

It worked correctly,it just couldn't get rid of the heat fast enough.

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Old 03-07-13, 11:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
......Unless somebody makes 4-6 piston calipers for bicycles....
Shimano, Hope & Avid make 4 piston hydraulic brakes and Hope made 6 piston hydraulic brakes not too long ago, the M6.
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Old 03-07-13, 01:11 PM   #19
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Like anything else, disc brakes are only as good as those who work on them.
x2, and this includes selecting the proper parts for the job like recognizing when bigger rotors are needed.

The bb7 can easily be argued to be the best mechanical on the market, the only real problem I have seen is the plastic adjuster knob can melt if you let the brakes get hot enough, long enough. If you set them up properly you would not have to adjust them so far out that the pressure foot can actually fall out, especially if there is still pad material left.
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Old 03-07-13, 01:19 PM   #20
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Magura Gustav was a 2 piston caliper. but they were both on the outside,
pushing the disc into an inside fixed pad, like most of the Mechanical brakes do.

now Hydraulics have slave cylinder pairs, moving into the disc from both sides.
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Old 03-07-13, 04:14 PM   #21
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Well maybe I should take the new pads back and get the organics....

The reason I know that the magnetic plates are trouble free is that I have one Tektro on my recumbent and it it is so easy to remove the pads and replace them. And the plates stay where they are with out a spring spreder to mess with.

Don't bother to tell me I am wrong, I hate mechanic work in the freezing cold.

I understand why mechnics would like the more complex brakes. Working in a warm shop....
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Old 03-07-13, 08:24 PM   #22
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Well maybe I should take the new pads back and get the organics....

The reason I know that the magnetic plates are trouble free is that I have one Tektro on my recumbent and it it is so easy to remove the pads and replace them. And the plates stay where they are with out a spring spreder to mess with.

Don't bother to tell me I am wrong, I hate mechanic work in the freezing cold.

I understand why mechnics would like the more complex brakes. Working in a warm shop....
Magnetic backing is not trouble free, my tektro's rely on it and over rough trails/roads my pads bounce enough to lightly rub the rotor, certainly not enough to add any resistance but the noise is pretty obnoxious.

I would also like to emphasize bb7's are in no way complex brakes but they are nearly always set up wrong.
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Old 03-08-13, 01:51 AM   #23
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Less turnover = better knowledge.
Maybe a problem solved by raising shop rates to allow more retention & training of mechanics ,
but if people shop just for lowest price, it ain't gonna happen..

Wages + Tips are better as bartenders..


I had no great problems pulling my BB7 pads ,
put screwdriver under the pad holder like flipping pancake.
in my case I took off the glazed face on the friction material, and put them back in

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-08-13 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 03-08-13, 08:58 AM   #24
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Maybe a problem solved by raising shop rates to allow more retention & training of mechanics ,
but if people shop just for lowest price, it ain't gonna happen..

Wages + Tips are better as bartenders..
I am guessing this was meant for the what mechanics want you to do topic?
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Old 03-09-13, 12:26 PM   #25
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It looks like they should just include the owner’s manual with the brake. All I saw was the installation instructions.

There is a real problem with the bike industry not enough really simple parts that people can work on without reading a manual.

So far no one has said why this brake is so “good”. Seems like your all in defense of it without considering the fact that most commuters do not want to work on their bikes at any time, least of all in the cold on the road etc.. This is why you see people bring their bikes into a shop just to have a flat tire fixed. I can’t afford to pay someone else to do it. And I have no car to transport a dysfunctional bike.

I would really like to get a brake that’s as simple as the Tectro but made of stainless steel. Maybe more magnet strength on the plates? Not that I go jumping around off road.

There is a lot of room for the industry to improve commuter bikes. I had to design and build the bike in the avatar because I could not find one like it at any price.

There are several excelent disc breaks with magnetic pressure plates.

cable pull http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/brakes/mechanical/

hydrolic http://www.hopetech.com/page.aspx?itemID=SPG28

hydrolic http://www.magura.com/en/bicyclecomp...sc-brakes.html

Last edited by jawnn; 03-25-13 at 12:21 PM.
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