Wheel lacing question: 40h 4x pattern?
03-08-13, 02:06 PM
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Wheel lacing question: 40h 4x pattern?
Well, my first question is, how come there isn't a wheelbuilding sub-forum? It seems like it would be very useful to have all that info in one place instead of being scattered across every other subforum.
I'm building a 40 hole wheel (a vintage Milremo track hub on a 700c CR18. The 3x lacing pattern is making the spokes too long. I'm thinking 4x might be a better fit so I don't have to buy spokes again. Trouble is, I'm stymied by the pattern. How do you count for the first set of spokes, then second, then 3rd and 4th? I'm a little lost. I've been to the Sheldon Brown site and others, but they all explain 32 or 36h with 3x pattern wheels. Or Crows foot lacing of all things.
Who can help a bikesniffer out?
I'm building a 40 hole wheel (a vintage Milremo track hub on a 700c CR18. The 3x lacing pattern is making the spokes too long. I'm thinking 4x might be a better fit so I don't have to buy spokes again. Trouble is, I'm stymied by the pattern. How do you count for the first set of spokes, then second, then 3rd and 4th? I'm a little lost. I've been to the Sheldon Brown site and others, but they all explain 32 or 36h with 3x pattern wheels. Or Crows foot lacing of all things.
Who can help a bikesniffer out?
03-08-13, 02:21 PM
#2
Banned
I ran 40 hole 4x pattern on the front wheel of my touring bike. its like doing 3x on a 36 hole wheel.*
40 is not evenly divisible by 3 , so crows foot is out.
I cant help if the spokes you got are the wrong length, order the right ones,
(In bike shop saturated Portland, no problems with sources)
I build one side, then half the other with straight spokes, then bend the last 1/4
to fit and lace the last cross.
*My rear a 48 hole was 5x , like 4X on a 36 hole 1st cross is the nearest spoke
'headed' to the opposite side of the rim.
40 is not evenly divisible by 3 , so crows foot is out.
I cant help if the spokes you got are the wrong length, order the right ones,
(In bike shop saturated Portland, no problems with sources)
I build one side, then half the other with straight spokes, then bend the last 1/4
to fit and lace the last cross.
*My rear a 48 hole was 5x , like 4X on a 36 hole 1st cross is the nearest spoke
'headed' to the opposite side of the rim.
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-08-13 at 02:27 PM.
03-08-13, 02:22 PM
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You know that when you look at a wheel spokes(on the same side) appear to come in (almost) parallel pairs?
There'd be one heads-in and one heads-out spoke running almost parallel and ending up with one nipple hole between them at the rim.
The way I do it is that I start with one pair like these, and get it properly aligned for the valve hole. Then it's easy to follow that lead and get the other spokes in place.
For 2X, the spokes forming the parallel pair are separated by 4 holes in the hub flange. For 3X the parallel pair are separated by 6 holes in the hub flange and for 4X the separation should be 8 holes.
There'd be one heads-in and one heads-out spoke running almost parallel and ending up with one nipple hole between them at the rim.
The way I do it is that I start with one pair like these, and get it properly aligned for the valve hole. Then it's easy to follow that lead and get the other spokes in place.
For 2X, the spokes forming the parallel pair are separated by 4 holes in the hub flange. For 3X the parallel pair are separated by 6 holes in the hub flange and for 4X the separation should be 8 holes.
03-08-13, 02:31 PM
#4
Mechanic/Tourist
Once you have even one spoke properly placed on the hub and going in the proper direction from the hub to rim it dictates the position of all other spokes. It does not matter how many cross or how many holes.
03-08-13, 02:45 PM
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If you lace one set of 10 spokes at a time and weave the second set (and fourth set) 3 over and one under (or 3 under then 1 over) everything takes care of it's self. It's no different then lacing a 36,32,28... hole wheel.
Question to the OP on spoke length- Didn't you calculate the spoke length needed for 3x first? Andy.
Question to the OP on spoke length- Didn't you calculate the spoke length needed for 3x first? Andy.
03-08-13, 02:50 PM
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as stated. it's the same as 3x you've just got to take one more weave. and, of course, the spoke will end up one rim hole beyond where it would if the pattern were 3x.
BTW, i just laced a 36h using 4x. for the same reason as you. the spoke length that i had demanded it. don't be too disappointed if the spokes are too short though with 4x. i think it can happen...
BTW, i just laced a 36h using 4x. for the same reason as you. the spoke length that i had demanded it. don't be too disappointed if the spokes are too short though with 4x. i think it can happen...
03-08-13, 04:49 PM
#7
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4X vs 3X will use about 6MM longer spokes, depending on the hub.
Of course you knew that, since you used a spoke length calculator?
Of course you knew that, since you used a spoke length calculator?
03-08-13, 06:32 PM
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Assuming you lace by the SB method of lacing all the spokes wound in the same direction first, 4x is exactly the same as 3x except you count one more cross. Don't forget that the first cross is very close to the flange.
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
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03-08-13, 07:23 PM
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Thanks peops. Figured it out with your help. The SB method is a little different from the method I learned (lace all of one side, as Andrew Stewart pointed out. There was an 8mm spoke length difference between the 3X and 4X patterns. 4X was what I needed to do.
I just needed to walk away from it then come back.
The hub was kicking around (replacing a beat down sturmey archer 3 speed). It's a cheap repair plus a learning experience, massaging lacing patterns. The rim and spokes have 15 years of Boston city riding, so I don't expect the rim to last all that much longer.
I just needed to walk away from it then come back.
The hub was kicking around (replacing a beat down sturmey archer 3 speed). It's a cheap repair plus a learning experience, massaging lacing patterns. The rim and spokes have 15 years of Boston city riding, so I don't expect the rim to last all that much longer.
