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Old 04-04-13, 10:23 PM   #1
yamsyamsyams
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cassette installation questions...

So I recently purchased a new 11 speed wheel from Shimano. 2 questions:

1. I want to install a 10 speed cassette on the 11 speed wheel, which Shimano says is possible with use of the included 1.85mm spacer. However, some googling shows others have also installed the 1mm spacer in addition to the 1.85mm spacer. Today I dropped by the LBS, and the mechanic says adding the 1mm spacer would make it so that there are not enough threads for the lockring, but I'm a bit skeptical. Thoughts? I haven't had a chance to test ride the wheels yet because my bike is getting some cable replacements, but it would seem that my gear indexing would be off and I would be able to feel the difference if the 1mm spacer was needed.

2. When going from a 12-27 (current setup on current wheels) to a 11-28 cassette (new setup on new wheels), will I need to have a different length chain? Intuition tells me no, but I'm no expert.


Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
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Old 04-04-13, 10:56 PM   #2
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I haven't had the chance to play with the Shimano 11 speed stuff but here's my take any ways. The behind the cassette spacers are to insure that the cassette (epically the smallest cog) fit onto the splines fully without bottoming out or not having the lockring completely engaged. Seems to me a pretty easy thing to figure out with the parts in hand. Whenever you swap out a cassette (even of the same cog count) you had better check the der's range as well as the SIS cable tension adjustment. To not do so invites over shifting into the spokes if all's just a little bit off. This is independent of any spacer needs. CHECK THE DER ADJUSTMENT EVERY TIME YOU SWAP WHEELS OR CASSETTES. Is that plain enough?

As to chain length- Again it's a quick thing to check. By trying out the current chain length with the new cassette. Slow goes it as you shift into the big/big combo just in case the chain is too short. A single tooth bigger a low cog usually is not enough to cause too short a chain, unless you already were pushing the chain short length limits.

Lastly a pet peeve of mine with this kind of question. Why do so many people think that it's a plug and play world? If it's written somewhere it must be the only correct thing to do? It seems to me that the ability to trouble shoot/inter pet/understand a system is now a days limited to what others say. The answers are in front of the person who is putting the parts together if only they would take the time to see the interplay they are creating. There now I feel better, Andy.
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Old 04-04-13, 11:05 PM   #3
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The answers are in front of the person who is putting the parts together...
Truely you may need two spacers - Who knows - That's just the fun of it....
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Old 04-04-13, 11:10 PM   #4
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Andy - thanks for the tips. I'm relatively new to fixing up my own bike but am slowly picking it up, I understand that not everything is plug and playable. My concern was more if anyone has had any issues with this combination, or any caveats I should watch for. Certainly with mechanical parts and adjustable derailleurs it's possible to "tweak until it fits" within a limited range, so to speak. I should have made that more clear.

I will definitely try it out instead when I pick the bike back up, seems I rubbed a few hairs the wrong way but I'm glad I at least got some answers
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Old 04-05-13, 05:06 AM   #5
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"it would seem that my gear indexing would be off"

Expect to have to at least touch up your derailleur adjustments with any wheel or cassette change, even like for like, due to manufacturing and installation tolerances. http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...nts-derailleur Take special care with your low limit adjustment lest you put the derailleur into the spokes.
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Old 04-05-13, 07:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by yamsyamsyams View Post
So I recently purchased a new 11 speed wheel from Shimano. 2 questions:
1. I want to install a 10 speed cassette on the 11 speed wheel, which Shimano says is possible with use of the included 1.85mm spacer. However, some googling shows others have also installed the 1mm spacer in addition to the 1.85mm spacer. Today I dropped by the LBS, and the mechanic says adding the 1mm spacer would make it so that there are not enough threads for the lockring, but I'm a bit skeptical. Thoughts? I haven't had a chance to test ride the wheels yet because my bike is getting some cable replacements, but it would seem that my gear indexing would be off and I would be able to feel the difference if the 1mm spacer was needed.

2. When going from a 12-27 (current setup on current wheels) to a 11-28 cassette (new setup on new wheels), will I need to have a different length chain? Intuition tells me no, but I'm no expert.

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
OP; No matter what advice you receive or from where; Just slide the cassette on the freehub with the wheel lying on its side, cog side up. Then eyeball the threading where the lockring goes in. If the amount of threading is not right, adjust the nuber or size of the spacers to make it right. Tighten the lockring and put the wheel on the bike. Adjust the RD to put the arm in the right spot at top and bottom and then adjust your cable to make your shifter happy. Then its all done. Less rocket science than expecting.
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Old 04-05-13, 10:43 AM   #7
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The chain length issue may be moot. If you have appreciable miles on your current chain and cassette, the old chain may skip and not fit properly on the new cassette. As a general rule, a new cassette requires a new chain.

As noted by Andy and others above; add both spacers and see if the lockring still threads on properly. If it does, use both. If it doesn't remove the 1 mm spacer and try again. Also plan on readjusting your rear derailleur settings. The change in freehub and cassette spacers almost guarantees you will have to reset both your limit screws and the cable tension.
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Old 04-05-13, 11:24 AM   #8
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This may be OT, but why did you buy an 11-speed wheel if you intended to use 10-speed parts?
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Old 04-05-13, 04:06 PM   #9
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This may be OT, but why did you buy an 11-speed wheel if you intended to use 10-speed parts?
Forward compatibility comes to mind.
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Old 04-05-13, 04:48 PM   #10
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But don't 10 and 11 speed use different cable pulls/spacing/chains etc.?
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Old 04-05-13, 06:39 PM   #11
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But don't 10 and 11 speed use different cable pulls/spacing/chains etc.?
The rest of the drivetrains (derailleurs, cassettes, shifters, chains.) are 11-speed specific but the freehubs are backwards compatible if you add the correct spacer(s). It's a bit like using a 7-speed cassette on an 8/9/10-speed freehub.
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Old 04-05-13, 09:24 PM   #12
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the lockring on freehub needs to bottom out on the cassette not the freehub body. that means that the cassette must stand proud of the freehub body. if spacers are necessary to do this, then so be it. and there needs to be enough threads engaged on the lockring to keep the cassette securely attached. there's not much more to it than that. the number and width of spacers necessary in order to do this varies, especially if one is venturing beyond the norm.

BTW, that one millimeter spacer is pretty narrow. i wouldn't be surprised if worked well with or without it in this case. you may want to adjust the high and low limit screws on your rear DR.

one tooth won't make much difference as regards chain length, IME, but i wouldn't take my word for it. i often second guess myself.
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