lineinthewater

So, I had a noisy Forte Titan rear wheel. Had a ping every few revolutions, especially when climbing. So, I marked every spoke position with a sharpie, and one-by-one removed each spoke, cleaned off the dried material on the thread (spoke-prep?), and put a dab of grease both on the thread and the hook that mates to the hub. After I did this to all the spokes, I had the mechanic quickly true it up. The wheel was noise-free.

After probably 100 miles of riding, the wheel was out-of-true. Not enough to hit the brake pads, but noticeable. Then, coincidentally, I hit a HUGE rock, and it made it much worse.

So, should I have used something other than grease?

HillRider

It wasn't the grease, it was inadequate spoke tension.

lineinthewater

Was there a mistake made when truing the wheel? I've never trued a wheel before - I would actually like to learn. I thought of getting one of those Spin Doctor stands. I can't really afford a $200 park stand. Would I need a tension meter?

jowilson

+1 on this. Adding grease can only be beneficial in this case. It helps keep the spokes threads from seizing on the nipple threads. That's it really. Take it back to the bike shop and have them properly tension and true the wheel.

Josh

cny-bikeman

The stand has very little to do with the quality of the true job. The wheel simply was not tensioned enough. Take it back to the shop point out that it came out of true quickly and ask for full tension and true. Given that you now have impact damage that could complicate things as far as them acknowledging the lack of tension, but it should still be noticible.

fietsbob

it should have been thread lubricated, when it was assembled, but machine built wheels really are not.
.. short of taking the time to entirely de tension the wheel , so the nipples 1 at a time can be removed,
the threads greased, (anti-seize in a grease form is better), then re tensioned and trued, again ..

3 in 1 oil that may penetrate, to let the nipple turn smoothly, so spoke will not wind up as much,
as you tighten them,
then the torqued spoke unwinds when you ride.

its wheel truing maintenance.. not a do it once and call it done, thing ...

FastJake

+1 Grease is not the problem. I grease the threads whenever I build a wheel. Inadequate tension is why your wheel went out of true. You can sort of guess by comparing the tension of your wheel to a known good wheel. When you squeeze the spokes they shouldn't bend a lot. They should "ping" when you tap them with a metal tool. If you get a dull thud they are way too loose.

Since you hit a big rock, you may have damaged the rim, and it might not be a simple re-tensioning. Either way, take the wheel back to the shop that tensioned it and tell them what happened.

lineinthewater

The large rock I hit - I hit it at a very slow speed. In fact, I was doubling-back to help a cyclist who had just hit it and blown a tire - yes, I hit the same rock (facepalm). I was probably doing 10mph (at most).

Is it naive to think I can self-teach myself to properly true and tension a wheel? I just read Park's tutorial, and it makes perfect sense to me. I feel like if I had the proper tools (true stand, tension meter), I could handle it. Perhaps I could have the mechanic take a quick look to make sure I didn't actually damage the wheel, and then once he says it looks OK, try to properly true/tension the wheel myself? I'd like to use this wheel to learn, since it's my backup anyway (and only cost $25 because of the noise).

Bill Kapaun

Doing a Google search, that's apparently a 20 bladed, 1 cross spoke, $90 REAR wheel?
That's a very minimal spoke count for even a front.
If you weigh more than 100 lbs..............

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes..._400002_400038

lineinthewater

Yep, that's the one.

Airburst

Whenever this question comes up, I trot out the usual story to prove that, in fact, any idiot can work on wheels with the right information. Using Sheldon Brown's site, I built my first wheel aged 14 or 15, with nothing more than the fork on the bike to true it in and one of those multitool spoke keys. I balanced the spoke tension by starting with all the spokes just level with the top of the slots in the nipples, and tightening each one by the same number of turns. If someone as clumsy as me can do that, you can learn to true wheels.

lineinthewater

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I was looking at Park's Tension meter. I find it odd that some reviews on the tension meter say it is a "crutch" and not necessary. How could knowing the actual tension on the spoke be a bad thing? I'd trust a gauge over my ear any day.

FastJake

A 20 spoke rear probably isn't the best wheel to learn on, but that doesn't mean you can't do it. I am also self taught learning pretty much everything from Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding article. I've built at least a dozen wheels now with nothing more than a spoke wrench and truing between the brake pads.

Bill Kapaun

Actually, the ear works quite well, once you know what it SHOULD sound like. That's where a tension meter can be handy.
I've started building wheels recently and definitely use the tension meter.
When I first started truing "junker" wheels for bikes I flipped on CL, I found the meter invaluable. When turning old, corroded nipples, I found many spokes that would be hard to turn. The first thought is that spoke has high tension. It turned out one can have VERY low tension and be hard to turn.
Now, when dealing with an old wheel, I simply replace all the nipples instead of fighting them. Still not real consistent, but definitely not as bad.

Airburst

The bad thing is the effect that buying the tension meter has on your wallet.

Spld cyclist

Crutch or not, it's a good thing to have as a beginning wheel builder. I have used one for tensioning and truing about six wheels now. If you want to practice doing it by ear, you can get one spoke up to the proper tension according to the meter. Then pluck the other spokes and try to create the same pitch. I've tried to do this a bit, but fall back on the meter for a reality check.

dabac

Here's the thing, if a wheel builder, by pure luck, or by extrapolating from other experiences manages to get the spoke tension functionally acceptable (which for high spoke, low mileage wheels isn't much of a challenge) the wheel builder might just take a certain pride in that. Fooling the system, beating the know-it-alls and similar feelings may all appear, and may lead to a bit of a superior attitude towards all those losers out there who are dumb enough to need expensive gear to get the job done. It speaks to the ego, loudly.

It's never a bad thing, but sometimes it doesn't matter.
As long as a wheel is good enough, then that's sufficient. Spoke tension - unless you get it hopelessly wrong - mainly affects wheel longevity. There's no useful rider advantage in a wheel that's better than required.

Me too, but the big thing is that it gives you a reference other than "the wheel failed", or "the wheel held up fine". If something happens to a wheel that's been built by feel and ear alone, failure investigation becomes a lot more of a guessing game. With numbers, you cancel some of the uncertainties.

FBinNY 

+1000. It might have been the bump, or inadequate tension (especially on the left side) but it wasn't the grease. Builders, including myself have been using grease to control spoke twist for decades without their wheels going out of true.

lineinthewater

Do you know if the park tool ever needs to be re-calibrated?

lineinthewater

Yeah, that's why I thought it was OK to use grease. I read several posts that said it was a decent choice prior to pulling all the spokes.

lineinthewater

Yes, for a learning mechanic, I think minimizing the variables is key. I'm sure it's a big difference if you are apprenticing, but I don't have that luxury. Thanks for your comments - that was my general take from those reviews, but didn't want to jump the gun on conclusions.

Spld cyclist

Going by what has been posted here in other threads, yes, it loses its calibration. Better tools also reportedly lose their calibration....

lineinthewater

I guess it's a stupid question. I just don't want to pay to re-calibrate it every year. But, I'm assuming if I only use it a few times a year, it will probably last many many years. I'm willing to pay $50 for the tool, just don't want a regular maintenance cost too.

Kimmo 

Not a crutch at all, as a tensiometer becomes more and more necessary as the spoke count gets lower, but I've built a 16h rear without one... just requires a lot more patience. Experience helps too.

Even one that's gone out of calibration is handy, as it gives you a better guide to relative tension than plucking the spokes, particularly if you don't have a great ear.

zacster

I built a 24 spoke radial/2x rear without a tensionometer and it has been perfectly true for 3 years now. This was the second wheel I ever built, the first over 30 years ago. I'm no lightweight anymore either at 190 pounds, plus I ride the streets of New York. Get it tight, ping the spokes, get them all the same pitch on each side, use a guitar tuner if you have one, which I do.