njlonghorn

I just had a spoke replaced at an LBS. I was thrilled because they gave me a 2 hour turn-around and I will be able to ride tomorrow. But they charged $33, which is quite a bit more than I expected to pay. Is this high? Out of line?

I know, I know... what I I really need to do is buy a spoke tool and a few spokes to have on hand when I need them.

shelbyfv

It depends on the cost of the spoke. A regular db spoke costs $1 and labor to lace and true an entire wheel is usually about $30. You must have fancy carbon spokes??

reptilezs

for a rear wheel here it is 35 labor and spoke is 2 for a straight and 2.50 for db. front wheel is 25 labor

njlonghorn

It is a metal spoke on a stock wheel for a cheapish bike, so I can't imagine that the spoke cost much at all. It was on the rear wheel, but not on the cassette side so I didn't think it would entail any special labor.

TallRider

presumably they are mostly charging you for labor of truing/tensioning the wheel. replacing the spoke is fairly easy (a bit more work on the rear wheel because they need to remove the gears to replace the spoke, but still not bad). The bulk of the potential work is truing and tensioning the wheel. If your rear wheel was properly tensioned before the broken spoke, they just need to insert the new spoke and tighten it up to proper tension.
However, rear spokes (especially non-drive-side) commonly break because of inconsistent tensioning, or too-low tension overall in the wheel. So it's quite possible that the shop did a fair bit of labor to true and properly tension the wheel after replacing the spoke, to decrease the chances of another spoke breaking.
What did they say as to the cost? Did you establish anything specific about what they were supposed to do, in advance?

Kai Winters

"cheapish" bikes are the most costly to work on per hourly basis. The cost of the spoke is minor. More than likely once the spoke was replaced they may have had to do nearly a complete retensioning, vertical alignment and truing. Cheapish bikes usually have cheaper wheelsets...lesser quality alloy for the rims and very cheap spokes...often we could replace the complete wheel, labor included for little more than the repair cost just because of the labor involved and seldom are the results worth it...beware of more spoke problems...once one goes it usually means they are all hitting their fault/life over point.

njlonghorn

I didn't give any special instructions, and they didn't say anything noteworthy. The receipt says "Replace spoke, parts and labor -- $33." They didn't mention doing anything special, but that doesn't mean they didn't...

I'm trying to be better about maintaining my bike and doing simple repairs myself. (Saving money for a new bike ). I'm cleaning my chain more regularly, keeping the derailleurs and brakes in proper alignment, etc. And I recently replaced the cables/housing and brake pads. Is spoke tension something I should add to that list? If so, what am I looking for?

Wesley36

You realize that the spoke needs to be the correct length, right? And that not only is there not a standard spoke length, but usually the drive side spokes are a different length than the non-drive side spokes right? And being a millimeter or two off is consequential for the wheel, right?

First the bike shop needs to accurately determine the correct spoke length (the broken spoke is broken, so you can't really use it to determine the length accurately). Then the correct length spoke needs to be either found or cut (a spoke cutting machine is quick and easy, but costs $4k to buy, keeping spokes in stock in 1mm increments is both expensive and impractical given the range of rim/hub/lacing/wheel dish combinations).

Then, after all that is sorted, the new spoke is laced in, and the whole wheel needs to be re-trued and re-tensioned. Remember, the reason a spoked wheel works so well is because it works as a whole. When a spoke breaks, this will effect all the neighboring spokes as well. So it is not as simple as slapping on a new spoke and tensioning that one spoke to how it was before.

njlonghorn

By "cheapish", I'm not talking about a Target-quality bike. It is a Cannondale that I bought for $550. Full retail was around $850, iirc. While it isn't top-of-the line by any stretch, I like to think (and hope) that it isn't horrible quality.

Airburst

It is if the spoke just broke because it got damaged somehow and the spokes were all tensioned properly until that happened, unless the rim ended up permanently deformed from the imbalance of tension resulting from the missing spoke (unlikely).

If the spoke broke because the tension in all the spokes on that side of the wheel was uneven, then the correct procedure is a lot more involved, as it involves balancing the tensions out properly across the whole wheel.

TallRider

njlonghorn, good for you on learning to do repairs yourself. learning to true and tension a standard bicycle wheel will be the next step, but it *is* more difficult and involved than the things you've listed. A real truing stand will be the best way to do it (and to learn), and you'll probably want to start with an old wheel - try loosening all the spokes, and then building it back up. I'd recommend Sheldon Brown's instructional on wheelbuilding (though there are other good guides) and start at "initial spoke adjustment."
https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Good to know you weren't throwing money down a wal-mart bike. But if the wheel needed a lot of work truing and tensioning, $33 for the spoke+labor isn't unreasonable. Assuming the wheel is now properly tensioned, it should be a lot more durable.

If the wheel was poorly-tensioned before the spoke broke (a likely cause), it's possible that more spokes on the non-drive-side of the rear wheel are fatigued and may break. If one spoke on a wheel breaks, I usually consider it a fluke. But if more start breaking, there's a general fatigue problem.
If the bike shop trued and tensioned the wheel, hopefully they've shot down long-term danger to the wheel. Cross your fingers.

Retro Grouch 

That's what I think too.

There's no way to tell if the charge is fair with the information given. If the shop took all the steps Wesley mentioned, I'd say that's fair because it's almost as much work as building a whole wheel from new parts. If the shop "cheaped out" on what they did, think of it as a learning experience.

Why did the spoke break? A common cause for drive side spokes breaking is shifting the chain into the spokes. If that's the case, the shop should have replaced all 8 or 9 outside spokes. That's what I would have done.

Incidentally, when I was building wheels regularly 12 or 13 years ago, I charged $1.00 per spoke for labor. Today I'd charge more.

jimc101

While Target bikes fall into the BSO range, $850 full price is still a very cheap bike which will only have basic wheels on it. You don't get 'good' wheels till you make a big move up in price, today, these will be factory wheels, with brands like Mavic, Roval, Fulcrum, Shimano etc, and that's the complete wheel, not just the hub or rim.


Why didn't you ask how much the repair was going to be before you left the store? This would have saved you querying the price charged now.

CenturionIM

it is also helpful to ask before hand how much it will cost. I always try to check their price list and/or talk to their mechanics since LBS bills can run up high pretty quick.

fietsbob

+1, Know what the property lease, the shop occupies , costs a month?

$20 a plate @ a decent restaurant is a tall cost on a $10 an hour Wage.




then theres the bill for an F22+, advanced Fighter to build for the past cold war .

SBinNYC

Here's how that $33 bill might have been itemized:

$1 - materials
$4 - labor
$3 - overhead (rent, insurance, etc)
$25 - knowing which spokes to tighten/loosen and by how much

30+ years ago a bike shop owner confided to me that he knew he generated one future wheel truing job for every two spoke wrenches he sold. He sold them for a quarter but added he would have given them away for free if he were not afraid the customers would catch on.

Wheel building/truing takes practice. Buy that spoke wrench. However, get yourself a junk wheel on which to practice.

Wanderer

5 years ago, my local bike shop charged a flat $25 to replace a spoke, and re-true/tension a wheel. $33 does not seem to be out of line.

FBinNY 

Just replacing a spoke and bringing it to rough the tension of the rest is a minute job on a front wheel, but takes a bit longeron the rear because the cassette must be removed first. Probably worth $5-10 on a quick basis.

But you usually don't want this kind of work, because it'll have you back with a wheel needing work within a month.

OTOH, properly truing a wheel is a longer slower job, with shop rates from $15.00 -$35.00 depending on the wheel and it's condition. This is the same whether a spoke is replaced or not. So a proper job replacing a spoke will be in this kind of price range, plus the cot of the spoke.

Unfortunately there's no way to know whether you got the $10.00 or $35.00 job. But time will tell.

mulveyr 

FWIW, my local LBS replaced a front spoke on my son's bike when we were out for a ride ( some twit in the rack next to him had their quick-release level horizontal and bent his spoke by leaning their bike against his ). They charged $10 for quick in-and-out service in about 15 minutes. But we're very long-time customers and the shop was empty at the time. I expect that if we just randomly showed up at a shop $30 or so would not be out of line.

bobotech

Cheap implies crap in the bike world as I have seen. A 800 dollar Cannondale is NOT a cheap crap bike. A 150 dollar Target bike is crap. A 800 Cannondale is a decent low to mid bike shop grade bike that will have good solid components that won't be the lightest or prettiest but will be worlds better than a 150 dollar Magna.

Your definition of good is somewhat bordering on elitist. A good wheel to me is a well tensioned 32 or 36 spoke aluminum double wall wheel that is taken care of. Sure it may not have the lightest or smoothest components but it will be a plenty serviceable wheel that should not fall apart. My son has a cheap front wheel on his bike that is a no-name Schwinn double wall alloy rim with a Quando front hub. Quite basic and low end. I properly adjusted the front hub and properly tensioned the spokes. Its been perfectly fine for him and he is just over 300 pounds and is hard on his bike, these are 700c wheels.

Most people dont' need high end wheels that start at 800 dollars for the set or a piece.

850 dollars is NOT a "very cheap bike" by any means.

jimc101

Sorry, but for a Cannondale @ $850 new, it is a cheap bike, saying very was an error, but Cannondale is a mid - high end manufacture with a few budget models and although the OP hasn't given the model name/number, going on the price, it is around the bottom of their range and will have low end wheels.

Sorry, you think that way, but I was biasing what I wrote on the info supplied by the OP and their bike, what is a good wheel? that depends on the intended use, for just riding to the shops, all you need is one which is in true, and well built (something very lacking in a lot of budget wheels) in this case, we are talking about a road bike wheel, and the cost of a same day repair, were getting off topic here....

do I own a set of high end wheels, no, but I would like to, yes, and plenty of people do, normally for specific purposes. Good road bike wheels start with wheels like Fulcrum 7, Shimano R500, these are cheap and good wheels.

As I noted above, it is cheap / low end for this brand (guess I can't win here, just because something is cheap doesn't mean it's junk, next time you are going towards the east coast, check out Aldi stores, they are cheap and good), if you were talking about a hybrid, would consider this sort of price mid to high range, it's all relative.

bobotech

See, I look at this bike as a nice starter road bike: https://www.cannondale.com/2013/bikes...mpact-crankset MSRP is 830 dollars. Sure its Sora but its still a good starter road bike. I don't like to use the word cheap only because it has a negative vibe at Bikeforums. I would call the bike an inexpensive starter road bike by a well respected manufacturer. As for the wheelset? I just looked it up and its something built with MADDUX RS 3.0 rims and Cannondale C4 hubs. Sounds kind of very basic and dare i say it, cheap, but I still maintain that they will be a fair bit better than the wheels on a 250 dollar cheap Walmart bike. They will be undoubtedly be machine built and need final truing/tensioning at the bike shop once the new bike arrived. Once trued and tensioned, they will probably last many troublefree miles even if they are a pound or few heavier than a decent 250 dollar and up wheelset.

I like nice wheels. I wish I could afford nice ones too but that isn't in the cards right now.

I guess I just took exception to the word cheap. When you are talking about tools and bikes, I don't like that word, it just makes me think of low quality stuff. I look at Craftsman tools as inexpensive yet very durable yet not cheap. I look at the cheap Harbor Freight socket sets and they really are cheap.

jimc101

I like the word 'inexpensive' to replace cheap, agree, cheap can, especially when out of context give a bad impression.

You hit the nail on the head about truing and tensioning, there's nothing wrong with an inexpensive wheelset, if they are well built, just about any wheel set should last a long time; if badly built / not checked on a pre-delivery inspection / not maintained when an issue occurs, they will last much less.

-=(8)=-

33 doesnt seem like an unfair price to me.
There is a lot more than throwing a spoke on the wheel. As mentioned earlier, a good wrench will take time to true the wheel
and re-tension all the spokes. If the wheel was way out, which on a lower-end bike is a good assumption, then the time goes
up commensurately.
Be glad its not an old Peugeot

linus

A 2hour turnaround? That's a quick service at this time of the year. $33? How much is a cup of latte these days?