AnkleWork

Every business has a subset of customers that need to be shrunk -- especially those with such twisted ideas of accounting and business concepts, and those whose only answer is "charge less, less, less."

surreal

I can see that my ideas aren't popular here; if you want to overcharge your customers, that's up to you. But, one day you'll find yourself chiming in on one of those "support your lbs" threads, lamenting the fact that customers buy parts online and/or hit up the co-op instead of making donations to your shop, and imploring ppl to spend at the LBS. If you do, please remember this thread, where you told us that charging $33 for a $1 part and 20 minutes of labor was awesome, and that the rip-off pricing strategy helps your shop grow, and you don't need/want customers who aren't eager/willing to be gouged. If your customer base continues to shrink, and you wonder why, try to think about this conversation and how it relates to the cause/effect chain.

As of right now, I'm signing off of this thread. Nothing good can come of further posting here.

AnkleWork

Buyers have as much say about pricing as sellers -- frequently more. Overcharging is impossible in a true free market.

ultraman6970

To the OP, 33 bucks is what the guys charged you to replace it and true the wheel back together. It sucks but when you add a new spoke you have to re-true the wheel and thats is at least 15 to 45 minutes depending on how bad the wheel is.

If I was I would start learning how to do the wheels myself. LBS in general dont like to fix wheels because is time consuming, the work can be a PITA and if the mechanic doesnt know what is he doing (many mechanics can't do wheels, know a few over here) it will take him a lot of time and clearly they can't charge the costumer for 2 hours of work for a spoke then they loose money. Thats the reason that guys that crashed are always offered new wheels instead of fix the busted ones, cheaper for everybody.

Good luck, 33 bucks even thought is too much IMO, it looks like a fair price because the guy had to work to re true the whole wheel again. Swap a broken spoke looks like super simple for a person that doesnt do wheels but you have to lose at least half of the wheel, worse case scenario the whole tihng and start truing the whole wheel to get all the spokes with the same tension (or close) and true the wheel too.

Good luck.

woodcraft

I've noticed that people (myself included) are more sensitive to price at the lower end of the range.

If you thought it would cost $23, and it ends up $33, that's a rip-off.

If it started at $28,000, and ends up being $33,000.... meh

cacher

The attitude never arrived on my behalf until the inexperienced youg shop lad provided me with one. At that time I thought it was necessary to learn a lesson, or two, in customer service, from someone that has worked in that field, for decades.

zonatandem

Cost of a spoke can vary but is only a small percentage of the $33. Labor ( and know how) is the culprit!

jralbert

The shop nearest my place of employ became very familiar with my aging wheelset as I broke one spoke after another, steadfastly refusing to spend the money to lace the still-solid hubs to new and less intransigent rims. They charged me $15 a spoke, parts and labour included, and I am sure I paid them for ten spokes before I finally caved on new rims. At $33 a spoke, I imagine I would have come around more quickly...

IceAce

Which leads us to the ultimate question;

"Which LBS owner has the best business plan?"

::: Ducks for cover :::

BikeWise1

In my opinion, a job performed to the quality level that does not require follow-up visits for adjustments because it was done right is worth a LOT more to me because it saves my TIME. That is my most valuable resource, and when I shop for service, I will always be willing to pay more for someone who doesn't waste my time. This is why my shop can charge a small premium....word of mouth says "go to Bikewise, because they won't waste your time". And a quick glance at the repair board seems to indicate a number of people like my way of doing things, and feel like my prices are fair.....

cny-bikeman

I did not work at a shop that charged a flat rate for truing, and neither did I do so when I had a mobile repair business. There's just too much variation in what's needed. We also charged less for wheel-only repairs - I assume most all shops do. When thinking about labor rates one needs to keep in mind that the time required includes the following in addition to all of the previously mentioned things that may need to be done for a wheel true:

• Repair intake - initial diagnosis, estimate, write-up of agreed upon repairs.
• Stowing of bike/wheel.
• Mechanic review of ticket and bike
• Recording of work done and charges on ticket
• Return of the bike/wheel to staging area
• Filing of completed repair form
• Making/receiving customer calls regarding repair
• Retrieving bike and repair form when customer comes for pick-up
• Communicating with customer about repairs done, post-repair instructions
• Ringing up of transaction, filing of paid repair form
• Occasional assistance with loading of bike into vehicle
• Guarantee work when required

It's not unreasonable to say that the above could add 15-20 minutes to each repair, and the amount is not much less for a small repair than for larger ones. Large repairs do require additional time to gather multiple needed parts. That employee time must be paid for somehow, and remember when comparing how much the shop charges vs. how much it pay mechanics that the employee is paid not only for repair time but also for all of the tasks above. So if a shop charges $60 per hour and a job is billed at $45 the shop is actually making only that $45 in an hour after you add in the other tasks.

Generally the shop that charges more is paying their mechanics at a better rate as well. When I worked at a Schwinn shop in the early 80's as an "overhaul mechanic" - no assemblies (except for C'dale, etc) or flat repairs - I earned $8.00 an hour plus 10% of billed labor. I was responsible for any of my repair work that came in on warranty, and of course was just paid flat hourly for that. Keeping in mind inflation since then, I was making a comfortable wage of close to $12 per hour. The shop's rates more than others in town, and it did not pay assemblers as well of course, but it had some of the best mechanics and paid them fairly.

I also helped found and was head mechanic at a bicycle co-operative. It was a full-service bike shop, the primary difference being it was a member-owned not-for-profit. Our labor rates were similar to others in town, but again we employed good mechanics and we hired new mechanics mostly from the graduates of a 60 hour bicycle technician course that I designed. We also paid hourly plus labor commission.

Very few objected to our rates, because we did high quality work, had a strong guarantee, and usually had a one to two day turnaround (max was 3 days on non-overhauls). Members received a 10% discount and some other benefits. A mechanic that had guarantee work come in not only worked at flat rate but could lose the commission if the error was bad enough and another person had to correct it.

The shop did not make a large margin because we offered free repair clinics on Sundays (with a paid mechanic on site) and safety and maintenance presentations on campus and in the community, and our technician course cost only $100, with expenses paid for mostly by the winter storage and used bikes that were raw materials for the course.

cny-bikeman

Changing a spoke is not like changing a shoelace - of course you'd know that if you were at that mechanic's level of expertise. If you want to have it done while you wait then you need to pay extra because the shop needs to keep enough staff on hand to do while-you-wait repairs and not delay the dropped-off repairs. If you leave the wheel, then all the items I mentioned before come into play and its no longer "a few minutes." Of course you'd know that if you had managed a repair operation.

Michael Angelo 

Mechanic for over forty years.....

cny-bikeman

If you were a mechanic in a shop then I would think you would understand that $10 does not cover much more than fixed costs plus the cost of handling the repair that I noted above

cxwrench

It's hard to belive that so many people managed to work as bike mechanics for so many years and never once got a clue about what's actually involved in running a business.

Well, I guess it's actually not that much of a surprise...there's lots of oblivious going around these days. It's not just 'replacing a spoke, done', it's just a bit more.

Paying a mechanic a wage to do the work.
Paying payroll tax for that employee.
Possibly paying health insurance premiums for that employee.
Paying for the lease or mortgage on the building he works in.
Paying insurance premiums for the business.
Paying for the lights and power.
Paying for the spokes you have to have in stock so the 10min repair doesn't take a week when you have to order said spoke.
Paying for the tools used for the repair.
Anything else I'm forgetting @surreal? We charge, as I've said, $30.00 for a spoke replacement plus the spoke. We charge $100.00 for a wheel build. We can barely keep up w/ service and 1.5yr ago moved one of our shops from a 1200sq ft location to a 9000sq ft location. We have a constant flow of new customers. I fail to see how this could happen if we charged 1/3 the labor fee we do now...
When we go out of business due to overcharging and no one coming in, I'll let you know.

Retro Grouch 

OK, so the actual charge was $33 for a 2 hour turn-around.

I think that it would be interesting to take a poll asking what people think the charge should be.

FBinNY 

I never get involved in pricing issues. It's between what the seller wants and what the buyer is willing to pay. If the numbers overlap they have a deal.

Wheel alignment/spoke replacement pricing is especially hard to discuss as an outsider. The amount of time can vary tremendously depending on the overall condition of the wheel, and what the mechanic does. I've replaced spokes in generic wheels and done a touch up true, and tension check in less than 10 minutes, and I've also gone the extra mile, and brought the wheel to (probably) better than new condition truing closely, and retensioning. The decision depends on the value of the wheel, and if the buyer is willing to pay for a better than minimal job.

That said, I rarely put more than 20 minutes into a wheel repair of any kind, except a bring back from dead job in an emergency.

mconlonx

We charge $25 for the work, plus extra for a spoke/nipple: $1, 2.0mm silver; $2 db/black; $3 bladed. To put the labor in perspective, we charge $15 for a minor wheel true; $30 for a major wheel true; $40 for a wheel build.

We were at $15 + spoke, but considering the extra work involved, raised our prices to reflect where such service actually falls within similar wheel services. With our overhead, it's where we need to be regarding service charges to stay in business.

$10 spoke replacement? Maybe if you own the building and it's a small shop, or you're willing to take a loss on the service to get people into the shop for other service/sales.

AnkleWork

Small businesses frequently overlook an adequate return on invested money. If the ROI does not cover opportunity cost plus risk, then the shop will not exist (for long). Real world rational minimum required ROIs for small businesses range from 20% to 30% per year. That's earned; true profit begins above that. After some people on this forum squeal "gouging", compare that to what investors charge blue-chip companies for using their money.

jyl

Don't forget bikes are a seasonal business. In Portland, for example, bike shop mechanics are slammed busy in spring, busy in summer, not busy in fall, nothing to do in winter. Shops lay off mechanics or slash their hours in the slow time, but can't cut off the rent, utilities, owner's mortgage, etc. and have to keep their very best mechanics at least minimally paid to have them in the spring. So, whatever profit your shop makes on your job, its not like they make that all year round.

niuoka

agree 100%
this is true of almost any season related industry

TommyBing

Inflation has actually been far more significant than 50% over the past 30 years.

$8 in 1984 would be around $18 in 2013 dollars. Depending how "early 80's" you're referring, it could be well over $20.

zukahn1 

Also the price isn't too bad if you brought the whole bike in with the wheel on tire mounted exspecially for a rear. Sounds high but most a shops have a $25-30 minimume charge on all reapair work. If one brings in the wheel off the bike tire desmounted they get charged less for basic wheel work. But a basic wheel true is $15 and spoke replacement $5 so the price is not way off.

cny-bikeman

Yes, I'm aware of that, not sure of your point. I did not mean I was making the equivalent of $12/hr in todays dollars I was making $12/hr (8+10% of 40) in 1980 dollars - a very good wage.

cny-bikeman

In a free market the price of something is not a "should," but rather simply whatever is agreed upon when the negotiation or purchase takes place. Again, the biggest problem is that the OP apparently did not check the price and the shop did not provide it when the job was dropped off.