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Old 02-21-05, 07:30 PM   #1
CdCf
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Fork rake and backwards?

I have a fork with a rake of 43 mm.
If I were to mount it backwards, how would that affect handling?
My gut feeling is that it would be very stable as the wheel contact point ends up much farther behind the steering pivot axis. Perhaps too stable?

(Please ignore the reason why one would mount it backwards.)
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Old 02-21-05, 07:35 PM   #2
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I think your tire would hit the downtube.
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Old 02-21-05, 07:45 PM   #3
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It would track great and steer like crap. Like a shopping cart wheel.
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Old 02-21-05, 07:45 PM   #4
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If you hit on something, you may bend the fork even further, because when you are riding forward.
It would be like hitting a metallic bar from a side vs hitting it from the top.
Hmmm... I don't know how to explain it in other way, if you need I can make a drawing of it.
That doesn't happen when the fork is mounted correctly.
I am not sure if I'm right... what do the others think about this?
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Old 02-21-05, 08:04 PM   #5
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There is a video -- one of a series hosted by Richard Ballantine -- in which a bike's fork is reversed and the bike pushed off down a gently sloping road without a rider on board. It confirms the straight-line stability aspect of the rearward facing fork. The bike just kept on tracking straight ahead. Pretty impressive. I think it was used to demonstrate the gyro effect of the wheels in helping to keep a bike upright (let the flames begin on that one!).
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Old 02-21-05, 08:17 PM   #6
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Yeah, that's what I thought.
And I do understand what you mean leoh.

My thinking was that the disc brake wheel ejection issue could be solved by reversing the fork, but I see now that it's not a good idea.
I'll see if I can come up with a better solution involving the hub.
Maybe ignore QR and go for a "normal" axle...?
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Old 02-21-05, 08:22 PM   #7
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Is your main issue the wheel torqueing out under disc brake load? Try using one of the allen style QRs. It is not a quick release but a long bolt. That might work, before you go to a solid axle. I had this happen once so far, on my single speed, but I think the QR was not tight enough.
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Old 02-21-05, 08:37 PM   #8
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Is this not an issue primarily to do with the mounting points of the caliper on the fork leg, and a problem that is not necessarily solvable by a solid axle and extra reefing on the nuts?
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Old 02-21-05, 08:45 PM   #9
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I'll look into what you suggested, Rev. Thanks.
I've no idea how hard it would be for me to find the parts over here, but I'll check!

I don't actually have the issue yet, as I've no disc brake mounted so far, but I plan to in a few months time.
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Old 02-21-05, 08:53 PM   #10
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In that case, I think this is a combination of guys used to regular rim brakes not getting the QR good and tight and people removing their "lawyer tabs" I am a firm believer in the REMOVAL of lawyer tabs as I am not an idiot and tighten my QR so the wheel does not fall off. However as I found on a recent ride on my new singlespeed, if you do not get the QR TIGHT, it may slip a little. Fortunatley I had not gotten around to removing the tabs on my Fox, which has huge, heavily shrouded, tabs. I suggest leaving them for this reason.

Now, I need some hotrod Volvo stuff, what can you get?
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Old 02-21-05, 09:03 PM   #11
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Hahaha!

I have lawyer tabs on my new fork (a Surly Instigator, btw), but they're tiny...
I suppose they still do their job, though, but a decent set of "wings" would've been better!
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Old 02-21-05, 09:10 PM   #12
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That is a tough frame, we have a 250# freerider that runs a Monster T on his. I have seen him break two Instigators so far. But I have also seen him jump two flights(20 plus feet of drop) of stairs. Most people will never tweak it.
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Old 02-21-05, 09:10 PM   #13
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Past experence: a know it all rental customer turned the fork backwards on his bike. The dropouts were welded to a stright blade fork to create the rake. The welds failed and a serious accident happened.
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Old 02-21-05, 09:37 PM   #14
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Rev, only the fork is an Instigator.
The rest of the bike is a Swedish/Norwegian brand bike.
And I haven't even mounted the fork yet. I've still got the original one on it.
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Old 02-21-05, 09:59 PM   #15
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In that case it will last forever and drip rain in your face should you roll the windows down.
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Old 02-22-05, 12:31 AM   #16
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Rev, what is the reason for filing of lawyer tabs anyway?
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Old 02-22-05, 12:40 AM   #17
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Rev, what is the reason for filing of lawyer tabs anyway?
It's to make the wheel come off faster for racing. Personally I think it's flat stupid to do it. If you want quicker releasing QR's you should get these instead of grinding on your fork.
http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?L...er&referpage=#
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Old 02-22-05, 08:53 AM   #18
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I do it, on my own bikes only, so the wheel comes out with out having to completely unscrew the QR. The last bike I did it to, the tabs were so fat it was easier to just take the QR off rather than try and keep it on the last half a thread. I view the atabs just like automatic seatbelts and air bags. They are there for the stupid. Cannondale was the only company that ever did it right. They had threaded drop out ends and if you wanted the tabs you screwed small allen screws into the dropouts to keep the wheel from falling out. In the case abovewhere my wheel torqued and cocked in the dropouts. i noticed it as soon as it moved and stopped and tightened the QR. If there had been no tabs it still would not have come out. I have been riding since I was four (34 years) I have seen a wheel comeout of the dropouts once. I have seen(Actually saw it, not to mention numerous frames in the shop) more frames break in two and the bikes don't come with a special back up inner safety frame to prevent this.
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Old 02-22-05, 01:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
I do it, on my own bikes only, so the wheel comes out with out having to completely unscrew the QR. The last bike I did it to, the tabs were so fat it was easier to just take the QR off rather than try and keep it on the last half a thread. I view the atabs just like automatic seatbelts and air bags. They are there for the stupid. Cannondale was the only company that ever did it right. They had threaded drop out ends and if you wanted the tabs you screwed small allen screws into the dropouts to keep the wheel from falling out. In the case abovewhere my wheel torqued and cocked in the dropouts. i noticed it as soon as it moved and stopped and tightened the QR. If there had been no tabs it still would not have come out. I have been riding since I was four (34 years) I have seen a wheel comeout of the dropouts once. I have seen(Actually saw it, not to mention numerous frames in the shop) more frames break in two and the bikes don't come with a special back up inner safety frame to prevent this.
Ive had the wheel come out of the drops on my huffy, I had it locked up by the football field during practice, and some dumbass was screwing with the QR lever, so when I hopped this curb, the front wheel popped out on impact, and I went headfirst over the bars and wacked my nose on the pavement. somehow my nose didn't break. Probably the front of the helmet I was wearing.
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Old 02-22-05, 07:20 PM   #20
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My fork's tabs have a combined "height" of 3 mm.
That means the QR has to unscrew almost 3 mm to be able to get past the ridges.
What's that? 2-3 turns?
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Old 02-22-05, 07:24 PM   #21
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Chuck: Schwinn had a slick design that snapped into two small tabs screwed into the fork legs. You could defeat these by simply removing them from the axle and repalcing them with a washer.
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Old 02-23-05, 08:35 AM   #22
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Is this what you are looking for?
Any info on this photo?
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