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Old 02-24-05, 12:15 PM   #1
genericbikedude
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Grease BB threads before instaling?

..on a cartridge BB? It seems logical, but I've never heard that you're supposed to do it. Should I? (ISO, not italian)
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Old 02-24-05, 12:22 PM   #2
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I've done it. I've also used no grease and a bit of blue locktight. I think it depends on the individual application. Grease worked good on my CrossCheck with a Race Face XC BB. But I don't mind pulling the cranks and checking BB torque once or twice a month. If you want to put it together and forget it - not recommended - go the locktight route.

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Old 02-24-05, 12:30 PM   #3
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Abosultely grease the threads.... a dry fit is a really bad idea, teh BB will seize evenutally or threads can gall up (esp. alu threads) and it wont be fun... been there. Use grease or anti-seize. Loctite is good for BB cups that have no lip.
Ive always used the simpel rule lips = grease, no lips = loctite
oh and no loctite on plastic cups
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Old 02-24-05, 12:32 PM   #4
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I just replaced a BB. LBS wrench suggested that I grease AND use Teflon tape, the latter to help seal the threads. I did it and the sky hasn't fallen yet...
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Old 02-24-05, 12:36 PM   #5
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We used anti-sieze in all our higher end aluminum frames. Comfort bikes and such received regular grease.

Teflon tape was only used on creaking bikes.
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Old 02-24-05, 01:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericbikedude
..on a cartridge BB? It seems logical, but I've never heard that you're supposed to do it. Should I? (ISO, not italian)
You would use grease or anti seize on a steel or aluminum frame. If you have a titanium frame, do not use grease. You must use an anti seize product, preferably ti prep. Grease will not prevent an aluminum or steel BB cup from galling with the titanium.
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Old 02-24-05, 01:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahctogi
You would use grease or anti seize on a steel or aluminum frame. If you have a titanium frame, do not use grease. You must use an anti seize product, preferably ti prep. Grease will not prevent an aluminum or steel BB cup from galling with the titanium.
Grease with Ti has never been an issue with any of mine, or many others that I know of. But if ya got it ya won't go wrong with Ti prep either.
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Old 02-24-05, 01:17 PM   #8
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OMG....another grease thread! just do it!
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Old 02-24-05, 01:47 PM   #9
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here we go again...

copper paste
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Old 02-25-05, 12:27 AM   #10
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another reason to grease is so you can accurately torque it, if you're into that sort of thing. Just grease everything. it's your friend!
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Old 02-25-05, 08:30 AM   #11
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I'm not a fan of going in dry.
On this topic you'll get many different answers, though. Some of the wrenches I've worked with (and who definitely know their stuff) insist upon going in dry.
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Old 02-25-05, 08:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Waldo
Some of the wrenches I've worked with (and who definitely know their stuff) insist upon going in dry.
Do they also get their jollies cutting out frozen ones?
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Old 02-25-05, 09:08 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by sydney
Grease with Ti has never been an issue with any of mine, or many others that I know of. But if ya got it ya won't go wrong with Ti prep either.
Syd,

I was taught this a long time ago, and it was further explained to me by the Litespeed rep a few years ago.

The reason Litespeed used to (maybe still do) ship every frame with a small tube of Ti Prep was because titanium does not form a corrosion bond the way steel and aluminum does. Corrosion bonds can be avoided by simple grease. Apparently, titanium does not corrode with the steel or aluminum...it bonds on a molecular level, which is referred to as galling. It is basically like welding the parts together since once the molecular bond is formed, you aren't breaking it. It does take some time to do apparently, as I have also seen bikes that were 1 or 2 years old that were built by another local shop that used to only use grease, and were still able to remove the BB's. (I also assume that you do periodic, preventive maintainence to your bike, so this would be done on a more regular basis than most.) But I know one guy that has a 10 year old Litespeed with the original BB in it....some peple simply do not tear thier stuff down as long as it still rides well.

Apparently Ti Prep (or as someone else pointed out copper paste, although I am not familiar with the product...it actually might be what Finish Line packages as Ti Prep, which is a copper colored, almost gritty feeling lubricant) has properties that form a barrier that inhibits the transfer of the molecules.

Wow, makes me wish I had paid better attention in chemistry class in high school...
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Old 02-25-05, 09:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahctogi
Apparently, titanium does not corrode with the steel or aluminum...it bonds on a molecular level, which is referred to as galling. .
I think you need to check some definitions.
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Old 02-25-05, 09:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydney
Do they also get their jollies cutting out frozen ones?
I never heard them mention it as in issue. Never saw evidence of it, and these are guys that tear their bike apart regularly. Do you really think that if it was an issue for them they would continue doing it?
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Old 02-25-05, 09:45 AM   #16
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Never saw evidence of it, and these are guys that tear their bike apart regularly.
Well, there ya go.
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Old 02-25-05, 10:08 AM   #17
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antii-galling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydney
I think you need to check some definitions.
From a website that describes titanium properties...

Drawing Lubricants
Conventional drawing lubricants generally are not acceptable for use with titanium. The most effective lubricants appear to be dry-film types incorporating anti-galling constituents. Polyethylene or polypropylene in dry-film or strippable form (0.003 inch thickness) have proven to be effective. A suspension of acrylic resin in trichloroethylene containing molybdenum disulfide and PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) coatings have also worked well and appear capable of surviving more than one draw.

Don't worry Syd...it was a technical industry term...i didn't expect you to get it anyway...

Last edited by Ahctogi; 02-25-05 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 02-25-05, 10:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by sydney
I think you need to check some definitions.
And from a dictionary website...

corrode
A verb
1 corrode, eat, rust

cause to deteriorate due to the action of water, air, or an acid; "The acid corroded the metal"; "The steady dripping of water rusted the metal stopper in the sink"
Category Tree:
change; alter; modify
╚damage
╚corrode, eat, rust
2 corrode, rust

become destroyed by water, air, or an etching chemical such as an acid; "The metal corroded"; "The pipes rusted"

Maybe I should have stated titanium tends not to bond to steel or aluminum through corrosion......sorry....I think most people understood...MOST people....
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Old 02-25-05, 10:27 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ahctogi
antii-galling



Don't worry Syd...it was a technical industry term...i didn't expect you to get it anyway...
And I still don't think you have a clue what gall really means, since that blurb defined nothing.
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Old 02-25-05, 10:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by sydney
And I still don't think you have a clue what gall really means, since that blurb defined nothing.
How about this Syd?

This problem is referred to as “Thread Galling”. Thread galling is most prevalent with fasteners that are made of Stainless Steel, Titanium and other alloys which self-generate an oxide surface film for corrosion resistance.

Thread galling is also referred to as “Cold Welding” as during fastener tightening, pressure builds between the contacting thread surfaces and protective oxides are broken. The interface metal high points then shear or lock together. This cumulative clogging action causes additional adhesion and increases the severity of the galling.

In extreme cases the galling effect leads to complete thread seizing and if tightening is continued the fastener can be twisted off or its thread stripped.

Does this "blurb" define things for you enough? Who doesn't have a clue here Syd?
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Old 02-25-05, 10:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ahctogi
How about this Syd?

This problem is referred to as “Thread Galling”. Thread galling is most prevalent with fasteners that are made of Stainless Steel, Titanium and other alloys which self-generate an oxide surface film for corrosion resistance.

Thread galling is also referred to as “Cold Welding” as during fastener tightening, pressure builds between the contacting thread surfaces and protective oxides are broken. The interface metal high points then shear or lock together. This cumulative clogging action causes additional adhesion and increases the severity of the galling.

In extreme cases the galling effect leads to complete thread seizing and if tightening is continued the fastener can be twisted off or its thread stripped.

Does this "blurb" define things for you enough? Who doesn't have a clue here Syd?
No problem here Bub.Glad you finally got it. But it also goes back to what I said before about never having the problem using plain grease.
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Old 02-25-05, 09:40 PM   #22
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Warning: anecdotal experience... Teledyne Titan CP anodized frame bought and
built up in '75, retired to basement '77 where hung til '99. Took it down and rebuilt
with cast off 105 8spd setup. BB came out snicker snack, no resistance or gall or
corrosion. Rode 2yrs as 8spd, fork or downtube or chainstay supposed to break but
never did. Rebuilt with Ultegra 9spd, with trepidation decided to change seat post
for one that rotated 180D, lightly lubed seat post comes out with only minor tug.
Maybe the anodizing is the antigall preventive? Oh, no Ti prep with the Vortex frame I got in '01 either. Steve
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Old 02-25-05, 09:42 PM   #23
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I have never not greased a BB when installing it.
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Old 02-26-05, 12:29 AM   #24
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Galling refers to friction damage to the threads on any threaded fastner. Damaged threads can certainly corrode and seize up more readily. Therefore the most important thing to do to avoid this is to keep them threads square.

Definition of Galling from BoltScience.com:


GALLING
A severe form of adhesive wear which occurs during sliding contact of one surface relative to another. Clumps of one part stick to the mating part and break away from the surface. (Can frequently occur when both the nut and bolt are zinc coated.)
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Old 02-26-05, 06:09 AM   #25
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Back to the original question......

A lot of current bottom brackets have plastic parts (like the "fixed cup"). Many plastics deteriorate in contact with grease. Anti-sieze does not have this problem, so why use something which is a substitute? My tube of anti-sieze compound cost less than $2.00 at an auto parts store.

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