Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-05, 07:41 PM   #1
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mechanical or Hydraulic discs for road bike?

Having fought bent rims all my life, I'm interested in building a road bike with disc brakes. I have either carbon or aluminum frames that I can weld the mounting bits to. Alternately, I can buy a frame with disc mounts already there.

I would prefer to build rather than buy because all the disc-brake road bikes I see (Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR Touring, Cannondale Cyclocross Disc, etc.) either have low-spoke-count road wheels or 700c by 28mm mixed-use wheels. I specifically want 36-spoke (or more) wheels with a 20mm-wide deep-V rim profile. No production bike with disc brakes offers this, and the LBS is unlikely to swap out on what I want.

Now the question: I can buy a hub-disc-rotor set for mechanical discs significantly cheaper than I can buy the same set for hydraulic discs. I understand that for mountain bikers, who decend continuously, the hydraulics are more reliable and preferred. Would there be any significant safety or functional difference on a road bike? For purposes of this question, assume 6" discs.

Thanks for your patience with my repeated questions.. I appreciate the responses I get and have become significantly more bicycle-educated by reading them.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 07:44 PM   #2
arboc!
Senior Member
 
arboc!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: specialized p.1, redline single x
Posts: 1,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
avid mechs... bb7
arboc! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 07:46 PM   #3
Rev.Chuck
The Red Lantern
 
Rev.Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mechanical brakes tend to be less exspensive. They are easier to set up for feel, Avids are, they are the only mechanical brake to get right now. The other issue would be that if you use STI, or even drop brake levers, you will pretty much have to use a mechanical brake. Formula makes a cable to hydraulic mastercylinder for their tandem brake but it is a pain compared to a lot of straight mechanical or hydraulic setups.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.

I am in the woods and I have gone crazy.
Rev.Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 07:58 PM   #4
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
Avids are, they are the only mechanical brake to get right now. The other issue would be that if you use STI, or even drop brake levers, you will pretty much have to use a mechanical brake.
Bless ya, Rev. - I hadn't thought of the drop brake lever issue.. That makes the question moot - Mechanicals are the way to go!

Why are Avids superior to others? I can buy Shimano Deore for a song.. Is there something wrong with Shimano?

Thanks!
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:07 PM   #5
mtbikerinpa
Senior Member
 
mtbikerinpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PA
Bikes: 92 Giant Sedona ATX Custom
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is not so much that they are bad inherrently. Rather, the Avid system has a great deal more refinement and reliability than the competitors do. They are the closest you will get to the hydraulic feel without being hydraulic.
I thought about making a set of non-sti drop levers a while back, but I decided there would be little advantage for road use to have hydro. It would be better, and I will never go back to mech on my mtb, but the difference in the road application is much more slight. There is not nearly as much grit and muck that can foul a cable system as there would be on a trail.
mtbikerinpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:09 PM   #6
Rev.Chuck
The Red Lantern
 
Rev.Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Shimano is OK but the Avids are gold. They are easy to set up, easy to adjust . You can play with feel and lever pull, a great brake. Avid also has one meant to work with the pull of a road lever so you don't need a travel agent to change the ratio.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.

I am in the woods and I have gone crazy.
Rev.Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:42 PM   #7
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Avid has a road specific disc brake. The ball bearing system in avid's and the easy adjustments are pretty good, they're the only ones I've felt that comes close to hydraulics.

Just out of curiosity, how do you "weld" brake tabs onto a carbon frame?
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:44 PM   #8
bac
Senior Member
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Too many to list!
Posts: 7,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
Why are Avids superior to others? I can buy Shimano Deore for a song.. Is there something wrong with Shimano?Thanks!
I've not ridden the Shimanos, but I have a set of the Avids on my Salsa. They are awesome - tons of power, and nearly maintenance free. They are as good as the Avid mechanicals for mountain bikes. I had a set of the mtb version for my mountain bike, but ended up with hydros. The Avids were great, but in the mtb environment, the cables would get mucked up quicker. The sealed hydros solve this problem.

Anywho, I don't think you can go wrong with the Avid mechanicals.

bac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:47 PM   #9
pmseattle
Senior Member
 
pmseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have used the Avid road mechanical disc brakes on my road bike ( well, it's a cyclocross frame ) for over 4000 miles and they have been perfectly reliable. I use Ultegra STI levers.
I was under the impression that no other mechanical disc brake system besides the Avid road disc was designed to work with road-style levers. If there are others I would be interested to know about them. I did note the previous posting about the hydraulics above.
pmseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:53 PM   #10
pmseattle
Senior Member
 
pmseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=bac]I've not ridden the Shimanos, but I have a set of the Avids on my Salsa. They are awesome - tons of power, and nearly maintenance free. They are as good as the Avid mechanicals for mountain bikes. I had a set of the mtb version for my mountain bike, but ended up with hydros. The Avids were great, but in the mtb environment, the cables would get mucked up quicker. The sealed hydros solve this problem.

Anywho, I don't think you can go wrong with the Avid mechanicals.

That Salsa is beautiful. What material is the fork made out of ? Your picture popped up right as I submitted my previous post.
pmseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:54 PM   #11
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Just out of curiosity, how do you "weld" brake tabs onto a carbon frame?
No welding with carbon - One can braze to carbon steel, TIG weld to Chrome-molly, and MIG weld to aluminum (but only with care). To go carbon, the manufacturer would have had to do it during the molding process. I'm not a welder, so don't quote me on the above, but I'm relatively confident that I'm right.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:54 PM   #12
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
Avid also has one meant to work with the pull of a road lever so you don't need a travel agent to change the ratio.
Might you know the model of the Avid road model? Thanks.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 08:57 PM   #13
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac
I've not ridden the Shimanos, but I have a set of the Avids on my Salsa.
What model Avids did you choose to work with your existing road levers?

Thanks.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:05 PM   #14
pmseattle
Senior Member
 
pmseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As far as I know there is only one model, and it is called the Avid road mechanical disc brake. Look at the Avid ( now a division of SRAM ) website. The brake assembly actually has a nameplate on it that says Avid Road.
pmseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:12 PM   #15
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
No welding with carbon - One can braze to carbon steel, TIG weld to Chrome-molly, and MIG weld to aluminum (but only with care). To go carbon, the manufacturer would have had to do it during the molding process. I'm not a welder, so don't quote me on the above, but I'm relatively confident that I'm right.
Yeah but you said, "I have either carbon or aluminum frames that I can weld the mounting bits to."
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:14 PM   #16
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
pull of a road lever so you don't need a travel agent to change the ratio.
OK, Rev. - I'll bite - what is a travel agent and where does one find such? The Avids seem to be a superior solution, but at $170 per bike (with no levers), they aren't cheap! I can get the Shimano Deore set (including two: hubs, discs, and caliper sets) NEW for under $100. Unless travel agents go for an arm and a leg, the Shimano still seems like the better buy..
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:15 PM   #17
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Yeah but you said, "I have either carbon or aluminum frames that I can weld the mounting bits to."
My oops - I meant carbon steel or aluminum.. Mind got ahead of the typing fingers..
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:16 PM   #18
phantomcow2
la vache fantôme
 
phantomcow2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NH
Bikes:
Posts: 6,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the avids are 170per pair? Where are you seeing this? I know with my BB7 i payed 64.95.
phantomcow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:18 PM   #19
phantomcow2
la vache fantôme
 
phantomcow2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NH
Bikes:
Posts: 6,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW
Super deal. IDe buy that kind of fast
phantomcow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:35 PM   #20
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomcow2
the avids are 170per pair? Where are you seeing this? I know with my BB7 i payed 64.95.
I got about the same price but as I read the advertisement, I thought the price was per brake (not per pair). Did I read it wrong? If I read the ad wrong, the e-Bay guy who wants $125 for his pair must have the same misconception.

The extra $$ was for shipping.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:39 PM   #21
phantomcow2
la vache fantôme
 
phantomcow2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NH
Bikes:
Posts: 6,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well from that auction its only 7.95 for shipping, ide say its a steal.
phantomcow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:48 PM   #22
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK - Assuming I go with the Avid road calipers, can I use them with any 6" rotor (like the Shimano Deore)? If not, what do Avid rotors go for? Finally, is the rotor mount pattern standardized so that I can add Avid rotors to Shimano hubs? I'll quit asking questions after these - I promise!
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:52 PM   #23
arboc!
Senior Member
 
arboc!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: specialized p.1, redline single x
Posts: 1,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
any rotors will do
arboc! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 09:53 PM   #24
phantomcow2
la vache fantôme
 
phantomcow2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NH
Bikes:
Posts: 6,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well im not totally sure since i try to avoid shimano stuff. BUt some of their hubs use "centerlock" which is their own little wal of mounting disc rotors. TO use these avids you require a a hub and rotor with a 6 bolt pattern. 6 bolt is very easy to find. Some shimano hubs have the 6 bolt pattern so just take a look at yours, it should be evident.
phantomcow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-05, 10:02 PM   #25
Rev.Chuck
The Red Lantern
 
Rev.Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you buy them "in the box" they will come with an ISO mount rotor. But you can use them with any 6" rotor.

The $170 sounds like front and rear not each to me

A Travel agent is a pulley gadget used to change the ratio of pull* on a linear pull (v-brake)brake so it will work with a road lever. You can use one on a disc brake for the same purpose.

*I hope I don't have this backwards, it is bedtime: Road levers and old canti brake levers pull the cable a short distance but with a lot of force, linear pull levers pull the cable a greater distance but with less force(Which is increased by the long arm of a linear brake) You need something, like a travel agent) to move more cable and reduce force or you end up with a brake that is really strong and starts working about the time the lever touches the bar. This goes for most mechanical disk brakes as well because they were intended to work with a linear compatible lever.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.

I am in the woods and I have gone crazy.
Rev.Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:45 AM.