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  1. #1
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    Can't set up my Campagnolo front derailleur correctly

    I have been having a lot of trouble setting up the front derailleur on my new road bike build. I have only worked on one other road bike before, but that one I got working faultlessly even though many of the components on it are old and somewhat used. I am used to working on mechanical things, but bicycles are a new venture for me so I need help from experienced people and/or professionals, please!

    My FD problems: I am having serious problems with chain clearance AND chain dropping from the front gears. I have spent a lot of time adjusting the FD and trying all kinds of positions and limit screw adjustments.

    It seems no matter what i do, I either get bad chain rub on the FD cage, or I get the chain dropping from either the small or the large chainring.
    I have a full Campagnolo Veloce (2013) groupset on my steel Coppi, 34/50 compact crankset and very short chain stays, which makes for quite big chain angles.

    Here are my questions:

    1. Campy FD is supposed to go from small to big in three clicks. That would leave one more click to adjust trim while on the big ring. Is this correct? How should I then adjust the high limit screw? If I adjust it so that it allows for the fourth click (thus trimming on the big ring), the chain will sometimes overshift out of the big ring if I pull the left trigger too far. Then if I set the limit screw to only cover for the three clicks, then there is no trim capability on the big ring. What to do? I almost don't need the trim function on the big ring, the chain only lightly rubs on the FD cage's resin insert while riding on big/small, the highest gear.

    2. The chain will jump off the small chainring quite often. I have set the low limit screw as close as possible. The chain even sometimes overshifts the small ring when the low limit is set so that the chain is rubbing against the FD cage on small/big (the smallest gear). Maybe it's a question of FD cage angle? Cable tension doesn't help, if I tighten the cable enough to stop chain from jumping over the small ring, then the biggest rear cog becomes unusable because of chain rub on FD cage... What should I do?

    3. What about chain tension? Campy instructions told me to cut the chain so, that when riding on small/small, there's a 15 mm gap between the chain and the RD body. Trouble is, with this chain length, there's almost no tension on the RD spring when running on small/small. Of course small/small isn't used when riding, but I would imagine there needs to be some chain tension even on small/small?

    4. How about the FD high limit screw - should I adjust the clearance in relation to the cage outer plate or in relation to the small resin insert on the FD cage? If I adjust the chain to clear the resin insert, there's quite a gap between the cage outer plate and the chain. Or should I move the FD higher up, so that the chain wouldn't normally touch the resin insert first?

    I am very puzzled, and seriously need help. I'm hoping someone will be able to help me - please tell me exactly how the Campy FD is supposed to operate (the manual isn't worth a damn) and how could I fix this problem. Thank you!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Don't worry about the number of clicks. That is not relevant. Take a look at the Parktool.com repair area. Good tutorials.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 08-03-13 at 11:31 AM.
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  3. #3
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    I used the Park Tool instructions Homebrew01 mentioned to get my Campy Veloce setup shifting smoothly:

    http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ur-adjustments

  4. #4
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    I've set up a lot of camoagnolo front derailleurs. 3 or 4 clicks work, but I highly recommend 3. It's a much more natural lever throw. I've never needed trim on the big ring with a properly set up campy 10spd system. The key is a very tight cable.

    here are my simplified instructions:

    1. remove FD cable and turn barrel adjuster in
    2. Put bike in small ring and big cog
    3. Set limit screw so the FD just misses the chain
    4. Install cable and tighten it with adjuster (making sure chain still doesnt rub)
    5. Shift up to the big ring. it should be 3 clicks if the cable is tight.
    6. Shift to smallest cog and set h limmit just off the chain.

    Edit: the clearance between the FD cage and campagnolo carbon cranksets is pretty tight. Is not a problem, but you will want to make sure to have the limit set correctly. I think it is tightest with a carbon record FD and record cranksets.
    Last edited by thirdgenbird; 08-03-13 at 10:25 AM.

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys, I've seen most web tutorials and Youtube videos, and I've redone the FD setup about 12 times now. The chain always falls off the small chainring, even if I set the inner stop screw so that the chain rubs on the chain (small ring big cog). The chain doesn't drop when I'm on the bigger rear cogs, but on mid to small rear cogs, the chain will always drop from the small chainring. I have no other ideas apart from this being a FD height or angle problem, or a chain length problem. I've basically ran out of ideas right about now

    thirdgenbird; that which you describe is exactly what I have done now, several tries...

    others: I've done exactly what is described on the Park website as well.

    So my chain is rubbing on both extremes, yet it still overshifts, at least from the small ring.

  6. #6
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    I've had bets luck setting them pretty low. I use an American penny as a feeler gauge between the cage and teeth. The instructions show a good diagram of the angle.

    Is it dropping the chain while riding or just in the stand?

  7. #7
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    My vote is for a warped chainring(s) that cause the adjustment you've carefully made to depend on where in the rotation the chainwheel is.

    if the chain is on the small chainwheel, and there's pressure from the FD, and the chainwheel warps to the right (outside), the chain could be pushed off the small chainwheel to the left.

    It wouldn't take much of a warp if the FD is already touching the chain.
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  8. #8
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    You may have the cable attached incorrectly to the lever arm. There is a right way and a wrong way. When the 2009 FDs first came out, a lot of people had the cable routed incorrectly, at the clamp bolt. That changes the lever arm length and fouls up the action.

    The correct way is to place the cable over the small guide tab, then over the top of the clamp bolt. A lot of folks placed the cable between the clamp bolt and guide tab, then over the top of the bolt.

    The high limit screw should be set so a full sweep of the finger lever leaves the cage in place to clear the chain, when it's on the smallest cog. AFAIK, there is no trim click available to the left, with the thumb button, using powershift levers. That one click of the thumb button should drop the chain onto the little ring. There is a trim click to the right, with finger lever, when you're in the little ring. It should only take 3 clicks. If it takes more, then the cable tension is probably not high enough.
    Last edited by DaveSSS; 08-03-13 at 01:14 PM.

  9. #9
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    Good call Dave.

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    I was reading this thread and I agree with dave, to me looks like the cable is not in the right place.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for your help again!! Appreciated!

    Cable is fitted correctly. Chainrings are brand new, not one mile ridden. I can't see any warpage anyway FWIW.

    I haven't ridden the bike yet, at all. I've been too anxious to do that as the chain is dropping.
    I've tried a few different heights for the FD, and some angles too.

    BTW, I still don't know how to set the high limit -> when I have the FD set to shift to big ring in three clicks, that still leaves one more click available for trimming on the big ring.
    Should I not need this trim function on the big ring? I can make the chain clear the FD cage on small sprocket on just 3 clicks, BUT, the chain does then rub on the
    resin insert on the cage, if not the cage itself. On the other hand, if I tighten the cable enough, I can make it clear the resin insert too. BUT, then the chain is rubbing
    on the cage on the small chainring/big sprocket, because that much cable tension lifts the FD up slightly from the low limit.

    Very, very strange. As I said, I was able to set up a Shimano system just two days ago, and it works faultlessly. This Campy thing is fighting me back..

  12. #12
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    You're taking the wrong approach to the cable tension and the high limit screw. It's the screw position that should determine the position of the cage, not the cable tension. A FD should never be set up to allow the cage to travel further to the right than needed. I think that's what you're calling a trim click. There should be NO trim click to the right, with the finger lever.

    There are also no tricks to the angle or height. Follow the instructions. The cage should be parallel to the big ring and 1-3mm above the big ring.

  13. #13
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    The Park Tool instructions specifically mention to pull the cable by hand when setting the limit screws instead of using the shift levers. Doing so eliminates cable tension as a factor when setting up your limit screws. Get the limit screws set, then adjust your cable tension. If you do it this way, the derailleur shouldn't be able to move far enough to overshoot the big ring on an upshift.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
    You're taking the wrong approach to the cable tension and the high limit screw. It's the screw position that should determine the position of the cage, not the cable tension. A FD should never be set up to allow the cage to travel further to the right than needed. I think that's what you're calling a trim click. There should be NO trim click to the right, with the finger lever.

    There are also no tricks to the angle or height. Follow the instructions. The cage should be parallel to the big ring and 1-3mm above the big ring.

    Guys, did you not read my earlier posts? The problem is not that I start out with the wrong procedure, it's that the system doesn't work how it's supposed to if I follow the correct procedure. Like I said, I have followed the correct procedure multiple times. The problem is, that I can't make the chain clear the cage (the resin insert on it) in big ring if I don't tighten the cable really tight. This required cable tension then affects the low limit position, because the required tension is so high. If I tension the cable like i normally would, then the chain rubs on the cage's resin insert on big ring/small cog.

    Furthermore; you say there should not be a trim function to the right on the big ring? Well, there IS. Since the finger lever has 4 clicks, and it is supposed to shift to the big ring in 3 clicks, then that leaves one more. Do you mean to say that I should adjust the high limit screw so that the fourth click is eliminated on the big ring? If so, then why are there 4 clicks on the travel of the finger lever anyway?

    I can get away with not over-tightening the cable, then the problem is only that the chain will rub on the resin insert. Although the big ring / small cog combo is rarely used, I don't see how this can be right. The resin insert will wear off in no time, it's just plastic, remember. If I move the cage further up, to maybe 3 mm height or more, then I believe the chain will clear the resin insert, but that would result in poor shifting.
    Last edited by TurboJ; 08-05-13 at 04:01 AM.

  15. #15
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    There should be no trim position to the right, from the big ring. If it takes 4 clicks to cover the needed range of travel, so the FD cage lands at the proper big ring position, then use 4 clicks. If you had ultra-shift levers, then there would be a trim click to the left, with the thumb button. Power-shift should levers should drop the chain back onto the little ring with that one click.

    If you have to use so much cable tension that the lever arm comes off the low limit screw, then obviously that is too much. Back off the tension and use that 4th click to create sufficient travel.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Is the FD damaged in some way ? Is there someone local that can have a firsthand look at it ?
    How about posting some pics from above and the drive side ?
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  17. #17
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    I have Proshift Centaur 10s levers on both of my bikes. Both bikes will shift from small -> big ring in 3 clicks. I set the inner limit screws so that the inner cage just barely clears the chain when it's on the largest rear cog. Cable tension is pretty high on my setups.

    When you adjust the front derailleur, are you making sure that the inner cage is parallel to the chainrings? I've had issues when the derailleur is "skewed."
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  18. #18
    Retro Grouch onespeedbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboJ View Post

    Furthermore; you say there should not be a trim function to the right on the big ring? Well, there IS. Since the finger lever has 4 clicks, and it is supposed to shift to the big ring in 3 clicks, then that leaves one more. Do you mean to say that I should adjust the high limit screw so that the fourth click is eliminated on the big ring? If so, then why are there 4 clicks on the travel of the finger lever anyway?
    One problem you are having is your belief you need to access the forth click as a trim, what you are ignoring is the front shifter doesn't have 4 clicks, it has 6 clicks, which is needed of you are using a triple (the shifter is used for both doubles and triples), there is no trim as used by Shimano just 6 clicks. You can use a click to trim if you need to stop the chain from rubbing inside the front derailleur, but you certainly don't need to abstain using the high stop just to access the 4th click. Campy doesn't index, it uses it's Micro-adust system to get the chain over the chain ring, usually 3 clicks per chainring (6 total for a triple). Campy is the easiest front chainring to set up. Simply adjust the lower stop to stop the chain from falling off the small chainring and the high limit screw to stop the chain from falling off the big chainring, then tweak to stop the chain from rubbing inside the cage and your done!
    Last edited by onespeedbiker; 08-05-13 at 12:38 PM.
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  19. #19
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    ^^^^
    You're describing how ultra-shift works, not power-shift. Ultra-shift has 6 clicks, but only 3 or 4 are needed to operate a triple and the 6 are needed to operate a triple. Any of the clicks, thumb button or finger lever can move 1 click at a time.

    With power-shift, the function is more Shimano-like. Only 1 click of the thumb button drops the chain from the big ring to the middle ring of a triple or the little ring of a double. In this respect, the shifters do index, just like Shimano.

    For 2013, there are triple specific and double specific power-shift levers. The double version probably only has 4 clicks. Earlier years worked with either doubles or triples.

  20. #20
    Retro Grouch onespeedbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
    ^^^^
    You're describing how ultra-shift works, not power-shift. Ultra-shift has 6 clicks, but only 3 or 4 are needed to operate a triple and the 6 are needed to operate a triple. Any of the clicks, thumb button or finger lever can move 1 click at a time.

    With power-shift, the function is more Shimano-like. Only 1 click of the thumb button drops the chain from the big ring to the middle ring of a triple or the little ring of a double. In this respect, the shifters do index, just like Shimano.

    For 2013, there are triple specific and double specific power-shift levers. The double version probably only has 4 clicks. Earlier years worked with either doubles or triples.
    Okay you have me confused. First I erred believing the a standard Veloce left shifter would also shift a double; the triple shifter (10x3) is a different shifter, however when reading the 2013 Veloce Power-shift specs and it clearly says "it takes 3 notches to raise the the chain on the the front derailleur to the upper chainring . For a triple crankset repeat the operation to position the on the largest chainring." this would mean to me that it takes 3 clicks for a double and 6 clicks for a triple. Further the "Technical Specifications" says "front derailleur micro-adjustment possibility - multiple shifting." This also leads me to believe that front shifting is based on Campy's micro-adjustment technology, not a one click index..I think we agree on all this, but I would add that the OP is asking about setting up a double and since it takes 3 clicks between chainrings (again a total of six for a triple) you can hardly call it indexing. However the description of the triple shifter also say specially indexed for a triple, which I believe is for one click downshifting.

    veloce.JPG
    In an earlier post, this how a user of the 2011 Veloce described the Power Shift. I would say the front shifting is almost as good as the newest Shimano groups. If you set up the front derailleur as suggested with 3 clicks I never seem to have trim the front when on the big chainring to get all the rear sprockets without scraping. You can microclick the front derailleur back towards the small chainring by pushing the shift paddle in while pushing down on the shifting ear.
    Last edited by onespeedbiker; 08-05-13 at 07:53 PM.
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  21. #21
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    The 2013 Power Shift for double chainrings (as the Veloce I have) has 4 clicks on the finger paddle, and 2 on the thumb lever. If you shift from small to big, it takes three clicks, and one thumb click back to small. If you switch 4 clicks from small to big, you are on the 'trimmed to the right' big ring position. Then it takes 2 thumb clicks to get back on to the small ring.

    OK, my system always shifts from small to big in 3 clicks. This is how it's supposed to be according to Campy.. But what is the fourth click for? It has to be there for a reason. Now then, if I use the trim function on the big ring, I can get the cage clear the chain much more easily, but I risk the chain overshifting onto the cranks (over the big ring) if I accidently sweep the finger lever over the 3 clicks position when switching from small to big. I still don't know if I should leave room for 4 clicks or not.

    FD is not damaged, all my parts are brand new, straight out of factory boxes.

    BTW, I raised the FD position some 0.5 mm and now the chain doesn't drop over the small ring quite as often. This made me confident enough to take the bike on its first run.
    I did a 15-mile run and tested different gear combinations as much as I could. The chain jumped off the small ring only once. So I must be on the right track, but there is work to be done still....

    As for the angle of the cage, I don't know if it's 100% parallel to the chainrings or not. The outer cage face is be easy enough to set that way, but the inner face itself isn't straight, it's curved in many different directions so I don't know which layer I should set it to be parallel by.
    Last edited by TurboJ; 08-06-13 at 03:36 AM.

  22. #22
    Old. Slow. Happy. MileHighMark's Avatar
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    Consider installing one of these:



    When the chain is on the large/outer chainring, you'll be able to tell if the inner plate/cage of the front mech is parallel to the chainring(s).
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  23. #23
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Whenever I have a front derailleur that doesn't respond to normal tuneing, I disconnect the shift cable, go back to the very beginning, and make sure that everything is correct before I move on to the next step. MOST of the time the problem turns out to be something to do with the position of the derailleur on the seat tube. If that's not right, no amount of fussing with limit screws or cable tension will fix it.

  24. #24
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    Campy instructions are notoriously poor and often inaccurate. If you can get the FD to shift to the big ring with 4 clicks and not drop the chain off the big ring, that would be great. If the thumb button would then trim the FD to the left with one click, that would also be good, although you'd always have to remember to hit the thumb button twice to shift to the little ring, unless that trim click was used prior to making the shift. If you have to count 3 clicks and restrict the movement of the finger lever to avoid over-shifting to the big ring, then something is still wrong. You should always be able to push the finger lever as far as it can go and not drop the chain off the big ring.

    See if you can go back and forth from the fully right cage position to the trimmed left position. If so, then Campy built in a trim click and failed to update their instructions. Nothing new there.


    http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/gro...x3_catid_8.jsp

    http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/gro...10_catid_1.jsp

    http://www.campagnolo.com/repository...ower-shift.pdf

  25. #25
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    Yes, switching between trim clicks on the big ring is definitely possible. The FD always switches from small to big in 3 clicks, then there is onle more click to the right. You can flick between the "4 clicks" and "3 clicks" positions on the big ring freely. It's always the last thumb click of the two available, that drops the chain back onto the small ring..

    BTW, I did some more testing yesterday, and the very interesting thing is that while actually riding, I was able to screw the low limit much further in ( -> cage more to the right) than I was able on the repair stand.
    Perhaps this is because of increased chain tension while riding, and the tension was less while on the stand.
    Setting up the lower limit like this causes the chain to rub on the cage intermittently while on the stand, but not while pedalling on the road. Interesting!

    This discovery just might fix my problems altogether - now that the cage sits slightly more to the right even in its resting state, that means the 3 clicks of the finger paddle also bring the cage further to the right than was the case earlier. That could help the chain to clear the outer cage face on the big ring more easily too.

    I'll try to see if this is indeed the case. I just hope it isn't raining when I get back home from work today..
    Last edited by TurboJ; 08-07-13 at 03:29 AM.

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