guy2600

I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond. I did contact HED who recommended what translated to on a Park tool TM-1 to 18/19 drive side & 11-12 non drive side for the rear, and 18/19 on the front. I'm finally getting around to building these up starting tonight (I've had a lot of irons in the fire this month) and will follow up with the final results with lessons learned for those who might find this thread via search sometime over the next week. Thanks again!

Al1943

The actual tension that you can apply to the non drive side spokes will depend on how much you put into the drive side and still have a centered (properly dished) rim.

kmcrawford111

I'd like to hear how you like that DT 350 front straightpull hub. I've been thinking of getting one. I like the idea of not having to overhaul loose-ball hubs all the time (for whatever reason, my bikes get pitted hub cones a lot) and trying out cartridge-style bearings.

What does everyone think of straightpull?

hybridbkrdr

I'm not the ideal person to answer this but I'm inclined to think you're tightening the wheel too tight before installing it. When you install the wheel on the frame, it already tightens it a certain amount.

FastJake

+1

Either you're setting the preload too tight, never regreasing them, or you're using crappy hubs. A good loose ball hub properly maintained should last "forever."

joejack951

I do like the looks of straight pull front hubs but I'm put off by the lack of spoke options. For instance, I have a set of older Mavic Cosmos wheels with straight pull spokes front and rear. I wanted to re-lace them with something lighter than the straight gauge 2.0mm spokes that they came with. In searching, I can only get 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes in straight pull whereas I'd really like to use 2.0/1.5/2.0 spokes for the front and rear non-drive side.

Perhaps I'm just not searching in the right places though.

rm -rf

You are using Sapim CXRay spokes? What Kgf range did they give you?

From the TM-1 card, 18 is 169 Kgf (using 2.1x1 mm column). 19 is off the chart.

There's another chart from their website. See the pdf link on this page. That shows 18-19 is 153-171 Kgf on the 1.0x2.0-2.2 column. Still way high.


(As an amateur wheelbuilder, cxray spokes are easy--windup is immediately obvious. It just takes a little extra time to twist the spoke back from it's windup.)

kmcrawford111

I've never had problems with the hub shells themselves, just the cones. Oh, and the freehub body on my road bike - I didn't worry about the hubs on the road bike because I was told they had cartridge bearings (which was wrong). I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I adjust so there's the smallest amount of play before I install the wheel. As for the hubs, yes, I've never had anything high-end.

Still, I'd rather not worry about this and have cartridges. At least I'd like to try it.

guy2600

So... I finally got these built up last night. This was quite a learning experience. In the end, I got them built to spec and I'm very happy with the outcome. For those who come across this thread building there first set, here's my take away:

1) The most difficult part by far was getting good information to start with. For instance, I bought spokes from wheelbuilder.com. The woman who I spoke with told me the spokes for the drive side & non drive side were close in length and I should just use the same spoke. I followed her advice to my peril. They would not even tension up. Going 2mm shorter on the drive side (as determined through multiple spoke calculators) solved the problem. Also, as RM-RF pointed out, the spoke tension posted above was totally wrong. When I talked with HED, the first guy I talked with gave me the park numbers. When I mentioned this did not take in account the spoke I was using he just gave me some BS reason and told me I'd be fine. Against my apprehension, I followed his advice. After some thought (and building the front wheel up), I called HED again and talked with someone who knew what they were talking about and got 100-105kgf for the front and 110-120kgf for the drive side rear. If you talk with anyone about tension for the rim you are using and they quote you a park tool # and not a kgf #, ignore them. Again, getting good information to start with was the hard part for me. More specific points...

2) Start with good tools. I used a park TS-2.2 truing stand (you WILL need the centering gage as mine was off by a lot out of the box), TM-1 tension meter, spoke wrench and spoke holder (to keep it from rotating). This step I did right and everything worked without issue. Also, I used Permatex anti-seize lubricant (silver or zinc, do not use the copper based - at least I've been told). I used this on the spoke threads and nipples in the area it contacts the rim. This worked really well and was good advice.

3) Lacing pattern: I used this youtube video which was helpful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYl4NO5m16Q

4) Stress relieving the spokes: I used this advice which worked great. This didn't sound very scientific but was affective. "Place a scrap piece of 2" x 4" on the floor. Take QR out of axle. Place wheel on its side with the axle on the block of wood and perpendicular to it. Place left hand (heel) at 9 o'clock and right hand (heel) at 3 o'clock. Place middle finger of each hand on a bottom spoke nipple at that position. Push your weight down onto both sides of the rim through the heels of your hands. Stressed spokes will untwist or "pop" and you will likely feel the twist in your middle finger. Work half way around the rim in one direction (CL or CCL, doesn't matter) moving to each adjacent set of spokes with each hand and you will have relieved all of the spokes on bottom side. Flip the wheel and repeat the process on the other side. You don't have to count spokes if you start with the valve hole on one hand and quit when it reaches the other hand."

5) Spoke length: Find out your rim and hub dimensions and use the online spoke calculators (cross reference several of them). There's several out there (use google) and I wished I had done the same. I would only use someones numbers if they built up the EXACT same build.

6) Practice: I think the best practice would be to take any wheel, de-tension it to zero and true it up. Lacing isn't hard and this was the most artsy part of the build for me. I've trued a dozen wheels through the years so I had some knowledge. If you can do this, then go ahead with the wheels you want to build.

This is everything I can think of. In my opinion, I would not be afraid to start with the actual wheels you want to build. Building wheels isn't hard but it is very time consuming though rewarding when you're done :-) I think it would take me about 4 hours to do another set. It took much longer than that to build these. Thanks again for help everyone!

alex jb

Nice write up.
you rode them yet?