mconlonx

Higher volume at the barber. If you're adjusting a headset correctly, it takes more than a minute, let alone 10 seconds. You're paying shop overhead on top of the mechanic's pay.

And the cost is dependent on the situation. Bike or headset purchased through the shop? Probably a free adjustment, I'd be surprised if it was otherwise. Bike purchased elsewhere or used, headset purchased elsewhere and owner-installed? Shop would be stupid not to charge for service -- what's the next service on bike or parts not bought through the shop customer will expect for free?

Speaking of which, if someone is so mechanically incompetent that they cannot adjust their own headset, why shouldn't they expect to pay someone else with more knowledge, experience, and the correct tools?

mconlonx

Wow, you have so much better a grasp on practical economics vs. an actual bikeshop owner, it's amazing you are not currently running a very successful bikeshop with this low margin, high volume model. You should quit your day job to do a full-time career as LBS business consultant.

techsensei

You are thinking about the headset alone. There are lots of other bits of knowledge required to work on a bicycle, enough to fill 11,000 pages in the current Barnett's manual.

1.) A haircut needs to be done every two weeks. The Barber can count on that person for repeat business if he does a good job. If a bike shop does a good job servicing your bike how often do you need to visit the shop? Once or twice a year? $100 for one yearly tune up vs. $390 for a year's worth of haircuts.

2.) What are the costs to run a barber shop vs. a bike shop? The rent and utilities might be the same, but what about the inventory? The barber might have some shampoo. The bike shop has thousands of items, some of which just sits there for weeks if not months.

A cheap haircut is $15. I'm sure there are places that charge more, and women can go to a stylist and indeed pay $80 or more for a haircut.

I'm a lowly mechanic that makes so little that I decided I cannot afford even $15 for a haircut, so I cut my own hair. If anyone wants to tip me, please, no beer...I do not drink.

Phil_gretz

My wife takes the train from DC up to NY for her hairdresser, who operates from his apartment in mid-town Manhatten. You don't want to know what a cut, coloring and styling costs... Fortuately, his "tune up" trims are free (like headset adjustments?) and my wife makes these junkets to meet her mother and sister in the city for a nice lunch or somesuch. Sometimes MIL pays, thankfully.

This apparently is the only way for my wife to be happy with her hair.

IthaDan 

Everyone with a head has hair to cut. Not everyone with a head has a headset to tighten.

WonderMonkey

The two LBS mechanics that help me out do excellent work. I'm sure there are crappy ones out there but these are tremendous.

Sixty Fiver

$7.50 is probably the shop minimum for relatively trivial jobs and for $7.50 you could probably buy a multi-tool and do the job yourself being that any moron can do it.

If a shop comp'd every "10 second job" they'd never be able to pay their expenses because there really aren't any 10 second jobs... someone has to talk to the customer, get it in the shop, do the job, and do the billing.

I'd probably comp a job like this as the bike would not even have to go on the stand... threadless headsets are pretty straight forward but I would not trust it to any moron with an allen wrench if you are one who cannot do the job themselves.

techsensei

I'd be a rich man if I got paid for every time someone asked me if they could raise the stem on their threadless headset bike. There are a lot of people who have no clue about bikes, and don't feel ripped off paying $7.50 for the one minute adjustment. But I never make just one adjustment. If a bike has a loose anything, I look over the whole bike.

Sixty Fiver

This is what professionals do.

surreal

I'm guessing that this is sarcasm, but it's hard to recognize anything through the fog created by all of that awkward syntax. FT career in the LBS game? No thank you. Sad to say, but that's a dying profession, destined to go the way of the miller and the print journalist. Despite all of the protests on this forum, the entire reason that the LBS seeks such high markup for items that they don't even stock, that can be had for far less by anyone with access to a computer, is that they have far too few customers. I suspect that this is a vicious cycle, whereby the lbs retains fewer customers due in large part to the exorbitant prices. Eventually, you'll be left with just a few customers each month, who will have to pay a few grand for each inner tube. I want no part of that.

I've noticed more and more working ppl at the co-ops, volunteering, becoming members, or just goofing around with bikes for fun. Many used to work at shops, others used to be customers at shops, and still others are just happy that they can finally succeed as serious cyclists, b/c they have reliable, affordable support to keep their bikes running. I haven't taken an official poll, but many of these ppl are fed up with the LBS. These are the folks that the shops should've appreciated, respected, and taken care of, b/c many are lifelong cyclists with some disposable income...

Instead, the LBS went with the "high margin, low volume" model-- the $10 inner tube model. As soon as the upper-middle class disappears, we can expect the few remaining successful bike shops to go belly up, too. They rely on ppl with a lot of cash, and a strong aversion to turning their own wrenches...

surreal

I'm pretty familiar with what's offer in the cycling industry today; I once bought a set of esoteric, poorly finished yet otherwise very nice hubs from a Canucki gent for more money than I care to disclose here; even the guys at the shop had never heard of these hubs, nor seen their like before. (TBH, though, they're just knock-off freewheel Phils, with a GWN flair.) So, a guy like me is well aware of the range/variety of tubes on the market, and the varying quality and attributes that contribute to divergent retail pricing. You pay extra for ultralite, a lot extra for Schwalbe's premium tubes, which come in a dizzying array of sizes and valve stem flavors, and are about as "Deluxe" as an inner tube can be.

I'm not talking about those tubes. I'm talking about crap tubes, like most of us use all the time. And, yes, Walmart has gone insane by bumping their prices on tubes sky-high.

wheelreason

As opposed to the folks with little or no money who prefer to do their own work?...Duh....Yeah?!...And please refer to them properly; triathlete, or Doctor of Dental Science

Leebo

I always have lots of bike projects going. My lbs mechanics have lots of bits and pieces from takeoffs, etc. A 6 pack, fresh tomatoes from the garden or some pulled pork goes a long way.

cny-bikeman

I know how to mow a lawn, even how to do minor maintenance on electric and gas mowers. I like the way the lawn looks after I mow and trim it, and I can get some exercise and fresh air by doing it myself. Yet I hire someone else to mow it. Why? Because there are other things I enjoy more than mowing, and the money I spend to have someone else do is equal to or less than the value I give to those other activities. For more skilled work (electrical, plumbing, carpentry) the time/opoprtunity cost is even greater, because I have to learn the task, acquire the materials and tools and then do it, possibly incorrectly. Everybody has a different equation for DIY vs HIO (hire it out) but we all do it. It's just harder to appreciate through the lens of working on a bike seeming so easy or enjoyable.

Someone who enjoys riding and can even do minor adjustments may prefer to pay a premium to avoid figuring out what's wrong wth a bike and dealing with getting banged, dirty knuckles and greasy clothing, so that s/he can ride more and do other things more rewarding. Yes, as with any business there are shops that don't do the premium job that their prices reflect, but many provide just the service that some people want. The shops that disappear will be those that provide poor service at a high price, and others will most likely take their place.

When I was in working in a retail shop my manager would often complain that his wholesale cost was not much under what the mail-order (at that time) outfits were charging. The reality is that Nashbar, etc can order thousands when a shop can only order dozens, and can stock a wide spectrum because there are so many customers that someone will be purchasing almost everything on a regular basis.

If a customer does not want to wait for an item to come in and pay more than online prices then I'm sure everyone these days knows you can get almost anything on the Internet. Bike shops and mechanics are no more going to disappear than are retail applicance/electronic stores.

Sixty Fiver

I think we agree on the crap tubes and the insanity when it comes to pricing and how Walmart has gone insane.

TommyBing

As a Super Fred, if I'm not riding my bike, it's in a stand right next to this computer, and I fiddle with it all the time, and that's how I learned how to service every part of my own bike.

For the newbie Freds, what is to stop them from feeling terribly disenfranchised when the local bike franchise (which is what they'll all be quite soon) milks them at every opportunity to pay rent and wages?

A headset's preload can be done with the 5mm allen keys that come for free with almost every single purchase of disposable furniture.

My point isn't even the exorbitant cost of the headset adjustment, it's the lack of appreciation of the customer, and the sad acknowledgement that they are used as a transient income stream, especially when it's a smarty Fred who buys online instead of buying whatever POS mixed Tiagra & Sora gem that's "on sale" for $2099. No one looks out for you at an LBS. There is no community atmosphere. It's a sales floor, a service opportunity, a potential ring up. I support my co-op because they care about bikes and people, and you can use your acquired knowledge to pass on to the next guy. I don't expect the stoner at the LBS to show me how to take apart a rear hub, service it, and put it back together for free. But you can tighten my headset as a courtesy and not mention it. I would patron that shop, and my income stream to you wouldn't be so transient.

But in the new world order of micro-itemization and turning every interaction into a receipt, why teach a man to fish when you can shovel crappy fishsticks into his mouth for the indeterminate future on his dime??

Trust the Gordon's Fishmermen, dudes.

mconlonx

So... I... well...

You know what? Nevermind. You are absolutely correct about everything here. I got nothing. Live with your misconceptions.

mconlonx

Seriously, there's times I think I live on a different planet that some people posting here...

supremekizzle

I don't tip anything, because my mechanic is bikeforums.net

Sixty Fiver

I will send you my Paypal address...

FBinNY 

Hey!! get in line.

gyozadude

BikeForums does have -paid- memberships.... Just a thought.

And curious how this thread got on haircuts and tipping the barber. I fix both my own bikes and cut my own hair... at least until about 3 weeks ago, when chemo cost me most of my hair. I guess for all these years, I've been tipping myself... and using the savings to buy more gear.

Fahrenheit531 

Until I stumbled on this thread it never occurred to me to tip my bike mechanic. I've always made a point to sincerely thank them for their work, and most of the time I would rather pay a little extra to get stuff like bar tape or tubes from the shop instead of the interwebs. I figure both are solid reflections of my appreciation.

After reading this, I think a more tangible expression of thanks -- particularly for the little extra effort that shows up in addition to requested work, or for the incidental no-charge tweak of this or that -- makes sense too. So I'm gonna go ahead and start mixing in some proper tips as well.

If I had the tools, know-how, and time to do the work myself I would. And I'm learning. Slowly.
In the meantime every time they turn a wrench they're helping me out, and I never have a problem paying for that. Even a little extra. Because gratitude.

BikeWise1

Seriously? Where do I start...

• They have a minimal commitment in terms of tools of the trade.
• They carry a minimal inventory of product.
• Their tool requirements never change.
• They have no need for things like shop rags or hazmat and tire disposal.
• There are no new head shapes to learn to cut. Not like God is going to come out with a whole different head that requires a new set of skills and tools to cut.
• Rent is split amongst stylists.
• Hair grows at a fairly constant rate on most people during all seasons.
• Square footage requirements are extremely low.....because....
• No extra square footage needed to store heads before hair is cut, and no extra room needed to display the head you should buy next. Operate out of a broom closet.
• All services are intended to be done "while you wait".

TommyBing

Please tell me where I'm misinformed, gave incorrect information, or somehow else live on a different planet than you?

I don't believe that the legion of bike franchises that have replaced, displaced, and eliminated independent shops over the past quarter century truly have an interest in fostering non-transaction-related relationships or in expanding the knowledge base amongst their clientele. This belief stems from the outlandish prices charged for services that have far outpaced inflation, and when commented upon, such retorts as "well, the price of oil keeps going up," or the tried-and-true "that's just the cost of business these days" should and do fall on deaf ears.

The last year my Dad ran his bike shop was 1981 in suburban Washington, D.C. We still have the laminated service list and their prices hanging on my own personal shop. A bar tape wrapping at a very decent shop in 1981 cost $2.05. With inflation that job should run about $5 or $6 now. However, it doesn't. That job now is $14.99 in Fargo, North Dakota. I can only imagine what it is in New York City. On and on and on. Where did that $10 beyond inflation come from?? My Dad paid better wages and all his employees had health insurance.

30 years ago my Dad would say "I don't know how guys can live on only a 20% mark-up." When my uncle was done with the bike business in 1999 he said "I just can't make it on only a 30% mark-up." Now you jokers don't bat an eye when 90% of the stuff in your shop is +47.5% above cost. So instead of passively-aggressively mocking those not directly involved in the bike business, please consider a different profession before offering me the line in another decade about how "we just can't run the shop without a 60% mark-up, you just don't understand the dynamics of the business these days."

If you can't make it running 40%+ over cost on every item in your store, it's time to find a new passion to generate income from.

Tipping the LBS, Jesus, America is sinking like a stone.