Ed Holland

Hi Folks,

I would really like to know which road bike hubs are available that use cartrige bearings instead of cup & cone "discrete" bearing components. I am aware that some of the Bontrager, Mavic and PerformanceBike wheelsets are constructed in this way. Other recommendations would be of interest. I have a set of wheels with Hope road hubs, but Hope no longer seem to make road bike components, otherwise I'd use these again - they're excellent.... and have cartrige bearings.

After killing a set of Ultegra hubs with around 12 months (4000 miles) riding in all seasons, and many other wheelsets in the past, I'm tired of bearing failures - luckily these wheels were very inexpensive to me. One can replace the cones and bearing balls, but not the cup races inside the hub body. Once they are damaged, it is game over and any attempt at servicing is shortly followed once more by unpleasent noises. Replacing a cartidge fixes all the worn parts.

Any advice greatly appreciated,

thanks,

Ed

nick burns

Suntour made some, you can find them NOS on ebay pretty often. They were sold rebranded as Specialized also. Very nice polished finish & the bearings lasted pretty long. You can still find replacement bearings for them at loosescrews.com.

Ed Holland

Thanks Nick - I'll follow that up.

I forgot to mention that, though I'm mostly in the UK, I spend a fair amount of time at our place in LA, so US mail/internet suppliers are no problem.

Cheers,

Ed

phantomcow2

Theres a company i like called Sun Race, which is pretty much a spin off suntour. They make a hub called Jujus, all cartridge bearings, come in disc and non disc version. But ive only seen the disc versions online, your LBS should be able to order some for you though, they are not very expensive either

MichaelW

In the US, Phil Woods and Chris King are 2 makers of durable cartridge bearing wheels.
In the UK, Royce have a god reputation.
Hope still make rear hubs with a 130mm axle.

steveknight

Velocity makes a good hub. I ahve two of them sealed cartridge bearings.
https://www.velocityusa.com/

Davet

How the heck do you manage to destroy Ultegra hubs in only 4000 miles? Shimano, Campy and other cup and cone hubs have reputations for lasting far more than that meager amount of mileage with even a modicum of maintenance. Not a knock on you (well maybe) but spending large amount of money for cartridge bearing hubs, when a tiny bit of time and energy in keeping care of hubs that "are very inexpensive" would double, triple or quadruple the amount of miles you could get.

seely

Velocity hubs are cartridge, I think the rear hub used 4 bearings.

Sheldon Brown

Croaking your Ultegras so soon suggests that they may not have been well maintained, in particular, they may have been adjusted too tight. This is very common with quick release hubs--they're generally sold adjusted a bit too tight because it makes for easier wheel truing. Once the wheel is built they should then be loosened up to allow for the axle compression by the quick release skewer.

See also https://sheldonbrown.com/cones

If your problem is related to contamination, consider upgrading to "mountain" hubs such as XT.

Doing a good job of a cartridge bearing Freehub is not easy. Phil Wood is wonderful, but costs three times as much as a high end Shimano model. In my opinion Phil is the only hub that is even a little better than Shimano; most "boutique" hubs are actually inferior in quality, despite being more expensive. The Shimano design is tough to beat.

Sheldon "Freehub" Brown

moxfyre

Is there a reason why a cartridge freehub is tougher to make than a front hub or a freewheel hub? I've noticed that most cheap fixed gear hubs are cartridge bearing, and mine at least seem to work great.

Sheldon Brown

Yes, it's a matter of clearance because you need three bearings on the right side, one for the wheel to turn, the other two to permit coasting. The main axle bearing wants to be outboard of the ratchet mechanism (a Shimano patent, I believe) or you need to use an extra thick axle for strength. The sprocket spline pattern limits the maximum size of the ratchet bearings.

Also, cartridge bearings are tricky to adjust for use with quick release hubs. When you tighten the QR skewer, the axle compresses a bit, which can create disastrous side loads on the bearing cartridges if they aren't adjusted to take this compression into account.

Cartridge hubs are great for fixed gear, nutted applications, we sell skillions of them from our Fixed Gear Hubs Page https://harriscyclery.com/fixed-hubs

For a derailer bike though, nothing comes close to Shimano.

Sheldon "Surly" Brown

Rev.Chuck

There are other companies that make high quality cassette hubs. i have a set of Hugis on my mountian bike that have lasted eleven years so far including a tour on my stock trials bike(Really hard on the ratchets) with only one bad bearing. And that was non drive side, got a little water in it from an obssesive wash ethic I no longer suffer from.

Charles Ramsey

There are still a few sanshin and sunshine hubs for sale in the tandem catalogs. They take a regular freewheel. Phil wood wrote an article about hubs in the 70's he said sealed bearings must be perfectly aligned to work, a normal 10mm axle flexes enough to misalign the bearings greatly reducing their life. The high precision needed for sealed bearings increases the cost of the hub. On the other hand the large axles needed for sealed bearings seldom break Roger Durham of Bullseye said no one has ever broken the axle on his hubs. Unfortunally Bullseye is going out of business. A couple of years ago I read that Hi-E was for sale, Hi-E was started by Harlen Mayer in Nashville Tenn They made very light hubs. Does anyone know If Hi-E is still around?

nick burns

The Suntour & Specialized hubs were also freewheel only, so if you need a cassette hub, look elsewhere.

Sheldon Brown

The cassette Freehub system is superior to the old-fashioned thread-on freewheel system in every respect. I consider it quite foolish to actually buy a new thread-on hub for use with a multiple freewheel. Freehubs are so cheap and so good!

Another poster mentioned that there are other good hubs around, mentioning Hügi in particular. I agree that these are good hubs, but don't agree that they're as good as, say a Shimano XT, and they are ludicrously expensive: a Hügi rear hub wholesales for more than 5 times the price of an XT. To add insult to injury, the Hügi doesn't even come with a skewer, while the XT has the finest skewer money can buy!

> Coffee: nature's most perfect junk food.

You call the Elixir of Conciousness "junk food?" Fie!

Sheldon "Coffeeholic" Brown

Rev.Chuck

True the Hugis are expensive but if you take an XT (XTR would be more comparable, as it is a higher finish, but still out weighs a Hugi) anyway, take both of them ride the hell out of them for five years and DON'T maintain, them which one will still work? The Xt is a good hub but I still have to replace the freehub asm on 10-12 a year, have had a couple tear the hub bolt out, and of course, if you get water in it and ride it for a couple of months, you will eat through the hardface and damage the cones and races. I have a set of, now retired, Suntour cartridge hubs that made it twenty years and never needed service. They may get put back in service as bum fixed wheels.

phantomcow2

the XT hubs are nice, i used them myself a while ago. They are very heavy though, over a pound i believe. Anyways they do break down, where with a Hugi or the Jujus like i said have sealed cartridge bearings, the life expectancy is greater. It would be nice if the Hugi hubs came with skewers though

Sheldon Brown

From my reading of the Tandem@hobbes email list, it appears that the Hügi hubs are considerably less reliable than Shimano tandem hubs (which are basically XTs with longer axles.)

According to my QBP catalogue the high end DT/Hügi 240 model weights 244 grams. An XT weighs 432 grams, BUT, as mentioned, the XT includes the skewer which weighs 46 grams, so there's actually only 142 grams (5 ounces) difference between them.

An XTR hub with skewer is 376 grams, 86 grams (3 ounces) heavier than DT/Hügi.

The Hügi is lighter mainly because of the use of an aluminum Freehub body. Shimano has been (rightly, in my opinion) reluctant to use aluminum for this purpose. Many "boutique" hubs use aluminum bodies, and it is common to have problems with them because they can get "notched" where the sprockets dig into the flanges, sometimes making it difficult or impossible to remove the cassette.

Actually, Shimano did go to an aluminum body for the 2005 Dura-Ace model to pacify the weight weenie market, but felt it necessary to go to taller splines to achieve the level of durability they believe to be necessary. Thus these hubs only work with the 10 speed Dura-Ace cassettes designed for them.

The XT hub has a steel body, XTR uses titanium.

I'll also mention that the Hügi hubs are known for having annoyingly loud ratchets. That wouldn't bother me, though since I rarely coast... ;-)

Sheldon "Still Can't Beat Shimano" Brown

moxfyre

Er... does anyone have an article on how sealed bearings work? I don't own any except my fixed gear hub, which I'm reluctant to disassemble.

phantomcow2

I have the opposite experience. Im using DT 240's and holy crap its so quiet i love it . Theres a guy with Hadley hubs who rides the trail and i can hear him frm a mile a way, drives me nuts. I have a set of onyx hubs laying around waiting for rims, still quiet but not as quiet. I like the sealed bearings the Jujus offer, and plus from AE bike the Juju are not that much more.

dooley

I recently bought a set of these https://www.bikepro.com/products/hubs/hubs_bullseye.html
I love 'em!

Rev.Chuck

A seled bearing works the same as a cone/race bearing except the parts are self contained. You have an assembly of an outer race, bearings(sometimes in a cage) and an inner race. The races have a lip cut into their outer edges that trap a seal, which can be plastic, metal or a rubber coated metal. They have the diisadvantage of not being as servicable as a loose ball unit but the advantage of quicker service(in replacement) and if you wear one out the worn parts are all replaced. We have been talking about them in the hub but they are all over the bike nowadays. They also get used a bunch in just about every thing I have worked on from a string trimmer to an excavator to an offset press.

Waldo

Ringle makes some great ones that are well sealed and extremely easy to maintain.

phantomcow2

they are great things indeed, and if they wear just replace the cartridge. Easy

moxfyre

Thanks Chuck! Couple more dumb questions...

How does the cartridge stay attached to the rest of the hub? Does it have grooves that mate with the axle and the flanges, or something like that?

And how do they make a seal that (a) keeps out water/dirt/oil/grit/pie and (b) allows the two races to turn freely?